Silicate as a fertiliser

R0b

Shohin
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Inspired by the discussion on Danu products, I have a related more proven ingredient I would like to hear your thoughts on.

Silicate

Silicate is proven to have an beneficial effect on plant growth mainly against (a-) biotic stress. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpls.2017.00411/full

Ryan (Mirai) uses Blue Gold or something else from Eden Solutions which isn’t cheap nor globally available. After some searching I found that a cheaper more available alternative would be wollastonite ( Calcium Silicate ), which is readily available as a pottery supply. So I went ahead and purchased 5 kg for 10 €. Considering you would dissolve 1 gram per liter this should last a while. Any thoughts or experience with using silicate fertilisers?

 

BobbyLane

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No experience with that one. But anything will work usually, even the cheapest one you can find on the shelf😃
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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I've used sodium silicate and potassium silicate for a while. No notable differences because I also use sand, which falls apart into silicate-compounds and my soil media also contain those silicates already.
It seems that silica products - when applied to plamts growing in a silica free environment(!!!!!!!!) - increases some resistance.
How much? A little.
What's a silica free environment? Agar, moss, water, some forms of inland peat. All other soils and rocks contain either a lot, or a whole lot of it.


Hemp and cannabis growing is a world of "gold mountain promises" and very little actual effect. Slap a cannabis logo on cow dung and you can raise the price 4000%.
 

pandacular

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I wonder what proportion of cannabis growers get into it as their first exposure to horticultural. Pardon my pun, but I imagine it's extremely high.

That said, my bonsai teacher has a background in growing cannabis and I think it is very beneficial to her horticultural practices. But given the nature of the field, I can imagine a lot of practices being based on "this is how we've always done it" sorts of logic.
 

R0b

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I've used sodium silicate and potassium silicate for a while. No notable differences because I also use sand, which falls apart into silicate-compounds and my soil media also contain those silicates already.
It seems that silica products - when applied to plamts growing in a silica free environment(!!!!!!!!) - increases some resistance.
How much? A little.
What's a silica free environment? Agar, moss, water, some forms of inland peat. All other soils and rocks contain either a lot, or a whole lot of it.


Hemp and cannabis growing is a world of "gold mountain promises" and very little actual effect. Slap a cannabis logo on cow dung and you can raise the price 4000%.
The point was that many silicate minerals are not or very poorly water soluble. The point would be about bio availability which would be best with with Calcium or Potassium silicate. Most sand is rich in silicate but would have a low availability of silicate.
 

Tieball

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The point was that many silicate minerals are not or very poorly water soluble. The point would be about bio availability which would be best with with Calcium or Potassium silicate. Most sand is rich in silicate but would have a low availability of silicate.
I’m easily confused in certain subjects. So…my questions: When you say sand…do you mean sand like fresh water or ocean water beach sand? Or is sand actually something else?
 

R0b

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I’m easily confused in certain subjects. So…my questions: When you say sand…do you mean sand like fresh water or ocean water beach sand? Or is sand actually something else?
Sand as in a predominantly quartz based soil component. Quartz being SiO4 with various metal additions, which has the potential to break down to two SiO2 molecules but this is rather rare.

SiO2 than needs to break down to Silicic acid to be available for plant uptake,
 

Tieball

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Sand as in a predominantly quartz based soil component. Quartz being SiO4 with various metal additions, which has the potential to break down to two SiO2 molecules but this is rather rare.

SiO2 than needs to break down to Silicic acid to be available for plant uptake,
So not beach sand.
 

isid

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I have used silicate to help plant support hot summers. problem is you must be aware it increase PH.
 

IzzyG

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I have used one round of calcium silicate, alongside a few other ingredients and the response was almost immediate. I had some issues with chlorosis(my suspicion is it was from the RO water and a build up of chlorine based on the foliage analysis by Apical). Within 24 hours, the foliage started showing extensions and no further chlorosis 3 days in.
 

trigo

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I have used potassium silicate, i did a little experiment with 4 BRTs, in 2 of them i applied the silicate with fish and kelp emulsion and the other 2 just received normal fish and kelp emulsion, after one week i defoliated all 4 of them and repoted. The 2 that received the silicate already sprouted while the other 2 are still with swollen buds.

I know that there are alot of other factors, but in my opinion it worked. Same soil mix, watering and location.

IMG_4333.jpeg
 

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If silica is used by plants, it is used in trace amounts. For those of us that use lava and pumice as part of our soil, those components already have silica in them. Also many commercial fertilizer has silica in it with other trace minerals.

So I would doubt the need to specifically add it to a fertilizer. It would probably be in excess of what the plant can use.
 

IzzyG

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This is the claim on Eden’s site.

Silica continues to be an under-appreciated and unrecognized nutrient despite decades of studies proving otherwise. In certain plant species, Silica is absorbed in large amounts than higher than of “essential micronutrients.” For example, the uptake of Silica is twice that of Nitrogen in rice. Silica can benefit plant growth and can be very useful, especially with plants under toxicity or biotic stress. Silica may also enhance soil fertility, improve disease and pest resistance, and increase tolerance to excesses of Ironor Manganese. Plants high in Silica have also been study proven to be more heat or frost-resistant.
Silica has been shown to be a binder of oxides and hydroxides (toxic forms of elements) and heavy metals. Coincidently, Silica is one of the most abundant elements in the earth’s crust – and when soil becomes deficient in Silica, there are negative results. Calcium Silicates have emerged as the most essential and available source of Silicates for soil applications. Of those, metasilicates, Calcium Silicate [CaSiO3], has shown to be the most effective source in many soil environments. Our Calcium Silicate is a raw mineral with a relatively high pH (10-11) with low water solubility, which is why it is micronized to less than 40 microns for injection capabilities, or the raw coarse being available for spreading, or our extremely micronized liquid product BlueGold® Mega Cal-Sil. This product is considered a ‘lime.’ We do not consider this an available Calcium source as it is a Cationic (positive charged) input and Calcium needs to be Anionic (negative charged) to be available. Aragonite is the Calcium source you’d use to address Calcium PPMs in the soil/sap. This product is meant to be used to address Silica PPMs.
The overwhelming evidence in controlled studies has shown that high levels of Silica can reduce the severity of several important diseases like Blast, Brown Spot, and Hollow Stem Syndrome. It has been demonstrated that disease tends to decrease with increasing concentrations of Silica in plant tissue. Similar observations have been made for many insect pests. In flowering species, including Hemp, Silica PPM increase in plant tissue has been directly correlated to significant dry weight increases.”

Quick google yielded multiple studies including this one:


Specific page showing some relevant conclusions:

CE686952-31CD-4E78-ACEF-1C40F76D0DD8.png
 

Paradox

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So not beach sand.
Depends on where the beach is. Beaches near large coral reefs have high amounts of calcium. Beaches here in NY and along the east coast are silicate sands.
 

Paradox

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This is the claim on Eden’s site.

Silica continues to be an under-appreciated and unrecognized nutrient despite decades of studies proving otherwise. In certain plant species, Silica is absorbed in large amounts than higher than of “essential micronutrients.” For example, the uptake of Silica is twice that of Nitrogen in rice. Silica can benefit plant growth and can be very useful, especially with plants under toxicity or biotic stress. Silica may also enhance soil fertility, improve disease and pest resistance, and increase tolerance to excesses of Ironor Manganese. Plants high in Silica have also been study proven to be more heat or frost-resistant.
Silica has been shown to be a binder of oxides and hydroxides (toxic forms of elements) and heavy metals. Coincidently, Silica is one of the most abundant elements in the earth’s crust – and when soil becomes deficient in Silica, there are negative results. Calcium Silicates have emerged as the most essential and available source of Silicates for soil applications. Of those, metasilicates, Calcium Silicate [CaSiO3], has shown to be the most effective source in many soil environments. Our Calcium Silicate is a raw mineral with a relatively high pH (10-11) with low water solubility, which is why it is micronized to less than 40 microns for injection capabilities, or the raw coarse being available for spreading, or our extremely micronized liquid product BlueGold® Mega Cal-Sil. This product is considered a ‘lime.’ We do not consider this an available Calcium source as it is a Cationic (positive charged) input and Calcium needs to be Anionic (negative charged) to be available. Aragonite is the Calcium source you’d use to address Calcium PPMs in the soil/sap. This product is meant to be used to address Silica PPMs.
The overwhelming evidence in controlled studies has shown that high levels of Silica can reduce the severity of several important diseases like Blast, Brown Spot, and Hollow Stem Syndrome. It has been demonstrated that disease tends to decrease with increasing concentrations of Silica in plant tissue. Similar observations have been made for many insect pests. In flowering species, including Hemp, Silica PPM increase in plant tissue has been directly correlated to significant dry weight increases.”

Quick google yielded multiple studies including this one:


Specific page showing some relevant conclusions:

View attachment 497018

It states "certain species". Rice and hemp are grasses, not trees. Trees are plants same as grasses, but there are important differences in their physiology. It also talks about "building up the soil", for nutrient/moisture retention which is done for crop species we are trying to maximize yield from. It's a different focus from what we are trying to do in bonsai.

Our most common soil components already have silicate in them as do most fertilizer.

Lastly, you understand they are trying to sell you a product, they aren't going to tell you it doesn't make your plants grow.

If you want to spend money and buy it to apply to your trees, they are your trees. I don't believe it's necessary nor the miracle growth stimulus that is being claimed.
 

IzzyG

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It states "certain species". Rice and hemp are grasses, not trees. Trees are plants same as grasses, but there are important differences in their physiology. It also talks about "building up the soil", for nutrient/moisture retention which is done for crop species we are trying to maximize yield from. It's a different focus from what we are trying to do in bonsai.

Our most common soil components already have silicate in them as do most fertilizer.

Lastly, you understand they are trying to sell you a product, they aren't going to tell you it doesn't make your plants grow.

If you want to spend money and buy it to apply to your trees, they are your trees. I don't believe it's necessary nor the miracle growth stimulus that is being claimed.
Absolutely. Ultimately it’s all each person’s individual money, trees and also judgement call. I applied the silicate alongside some other nutrients after seeing issues with a handful of my junipers(and sending foliage to a lab for analysis). In response, they are all bouncing back and doing exceptionally well. There’s plenty of practitioners who’s had collections that went along fine with just the usual strategies that’s employed. No one is forcing your hand on anything.
 

Lorax7

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This is the claim on Eden’s site.

Silica continues to be an under-appreciated and unrecognized nutrient despite decades of studies proving otherwise. In certain plant species, Silica is absorbed in large amounts than higher than of “essential micronutrients.” For example, the uptake of Silica is twice that of Nitrogen in rice. Silica can benefit plant growth and can be very useful, especially with plants under toxicity or biotic stress. Silica may also enhance soil fertility, improve disease and pest resistance, and increase tolerance to excesses of Ironor Manganese. Plants high in Silica have also been study proven to be more heat or frost-resistant.
Silica has been shown to be a binder of oxides and hydroxides (toxic forms of elements) and heavy metals. Coincidently, Silica is one of the most abundant elements in the earth’s crust – and when soil becomes deficient in Silica, there are negative results. Calcium Silicates have emerged as the most essential and available source of Silicates for soil applications. Of those, metasilicates, Calcium Silicate [CaSiO3], has shown to be the most effective source in many soil environments. Our Calcium Silicate is a raw mineral with a relatively high pH (10-11) with low water solubility, which is why it is micronized to less than 40 microns for injection capabilities, or the raw coarse being available for spreading, or our extremely micronized liquid product BlueGold® Mega Cal-Sil. This product is considered a ‘lime.’ We do not consider this an available Calcium source as it is a Cationic (positive charged) input and Calcium needs to be Anionic (negative charged) to be available. Aragonite is the Calcium source you’d use to address Calcium PPMs in the soil/sap. This product is meant to be used to address Silica PPMs.
The overwhelming evidence in controlled studies has shown that high levels of Silica can reduce the severity of several important diseases like Blast, Brown Spot, and Hollow Stem Syndrome. It has been demonstrated that disease tends to decrease with increasing concentrations of Silica in plant tissue. Similar observations have been made for many insect pests. In flowering species, including Hemp, Silica PPM increase in plant tissue has been directly correlated to significant dry weight increases.”

Quick google yielded multiple studies including this one:


Specific page showing some relevant conclusions:

View attachment 497018
The text you quoted from the Eden site is quite obviously not written by a scientist. It’s marketing. They’re trying to sell you something and doing their best to make it look like it’s scientific. It’s wise to take such claims with grain of salt.
 

Wires_Guy_wires

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The point was that many silicate minerals are not or very poorly water soluble. The point would be about bio availability which would be best with with Calcium or Potassium silicate. Most sand is rich in silicate but would have a low availability of silicate.
Roots exude acids and bases, oxidizers and reductors, as do most biological soil thingies like bacteria and fungi.

If it wouldn't be bio-available, it wouldn't be present already in a whole lot of plant cells.
Quartz being SiO4 with various metal additions, which has the potential to break down to two SiO2 molecules but this is rather rare.
Rare is a very elastic phrasing in molecular science. As in: what sounds rare to us, might not be very "rare" in the actual world when expressed in numbers.
With a rough estimation there are 10000000000000000000000 (1x1^22)molecules of silicon dioxide in a grain of sand. Let's say a grain of sand is only 1% SiO2 and just 1% of that SiO2 becomes bioavailable.
That's a whopping 1000000000000000000 available molecules, eighteen zeroes.
Let's say it's even less rare, let's make it one millionth of a percent. That's still 10000000000 available molecules per grain of sand. Is that ten trillion?
This loops us back to the actual science at hand, because there is a mention of increased resistance-related gene expression. An increase can be measured when the expression exceeds 1x the "normal" expression level. Depending on the definition of normal (are we using a silica devoid control, or something else?), the applied statistics and the sequencing depth, one can detect up to a millionth of an increase and call it significant if we fiddle with what's normal and how we statistically approach it.

Maybe one should look up the composition and bioavailability from our own media like akadama, lava rock, granite, DE..

What I'm saying is that I believe the science behind it, just not the marketing.
The poster of the study, which the guy is co-author of, can be viewed here: https://digitalcommons.usu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1008&context=cpl_hydroponics
To me, it shows that the wollastonite is an easy releaser but it stops working just about when rice hulls are picking up the speed. If the soil pH ends up outside the "perfect range -2 or +2 pH points", which for the wollastonite seems to be within.. a week?
Then I'm not sure what to make of this.
If the release over the course of 120 days, which is about my growing season, drops back to regular levels and screws up the pH within days.. Man, I don't know.
Those Rsquared values seem to tell that the data is all over the place and release is anything but linear.


It seems that all positive effects of external application are diminished when plants are already grown in silicium rich media.. Which is basically every bonsai medium out there.

It sounds off to me that stuff like rockwool and perlite (40-80% SiO2) give off so little of it.

Summarized I think that it can be a great addition, but laying too much focus on it as a ferilizer can be dangerous because it can and will fiddle with the pH. If you're using tap water, the soil can become alkaline into the caustic to human skin levels.
 

R0b

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If silica is used by plants, it is used in trace amounts. For those of us that use lava and pumice as part of our soil, those components already have silica in them. Also many commercial fertilizer has silica in it with other trace minerals.

So I would doubt the need to specifically add it to a fertilizer. It would probably be in excess of what the plant can use.
Read my previous contributions no all silica is easily available for uptake in plants.
 
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