Signature Styles
- Thread starter Tentakelaertje
- Start date
Tentakelaertje
Omono
Super useful and educational stuff! Never knew there's so much African styles. Although, not the sort of styles I meant!
Thanks for the link, got it bookmarked.
Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
Hee hee Marteen,
Amazonian Vegetation is not bonsai - able ------- Huge leaves [ say 1 m ] and few branches.
Trinidad's jungle is listed as Amazonian. Luckily we also have scrub.
Other wise all of our efforts would be Chinese Elm, Fukien Tea, Ficus b, and Serissa s.
We used to be part of S.America, long ago.
It is enjoyable to be able to just around and find new - "victims" - and some are so fascinating
Zanthoxylum - is our satinwood, who would have thought we have a cousin to the Sezchuan
pepper - amazing.
If we are lucky, we should find about 30 solid trees / shrubs that will make excellent Bonsai.
We already have a small leaf buttonwood, and Buttonwood trees that have amazingly shaped
bark, very visually beautiful ------------ how to do ------- ha ha more experiments.
An oxalis that has woody bark, beautiful flowers and delicate leaves.
Or an ironwood, that has leaves which seem to float and a trunk, that not only heals large wounds
but cracks and peels in different colours.
Seagrapes that at 4" [ 10 cm ] can have 6 + branches and 1" leaves or smaller.Last count 45 leaves.
A Chlorophora t. [ Fustic ] which can go as dense as a Zelkova.
So much to learn.
On such a small island.
Good Day
Anthony
Amazonian Vegetation is not bonsai - able ------- Huge leaves [ say 1 m ] and few branches.
Trinidad's jungle is listed as Amazonian. Luckily we also have scrub.
Other wise all of our efforts would be Chinese Elm, Fukien Tea, Ficus b, and Serissa s.
We used to be part of S.America, long ago.
It is enjoyable to be able to just around and find new - "victims" - and some are so fascinating
Zanthoxylum - is our satinwood, who would have thought we have a cousin to the Sezchuan
pepper - amazing.
If we are lucky, we should find about 30 solid trees / shrubs that will make excellent Bonsai.
We already have a small leaf buttonwood, and Buttonwood trees that have amazingly shaped
bark, very visually beautiful ------------ how to do ------- ha ha more experiments.
An oxalis that has woody bark, beautiful flowers and delicate leaves.
Or an ironwood, that has leaves which seem to float and a trunk, that not only heals large wounds
but cracks and peels in different colours.
Seagrapes that at 4" [ 10 cm ] can have 6 + branches and 1" leaves or smaller.Last count 45 leaves.
A Chlorophora t. [ Fustic ] which can go as dense as a Zelkova.
So much to learn.
On such a small island.
Good Day
Anthony
fredman
Masterpiece
I would not call the Wonderboom one a style really....but then again why not
Its the only one in the country that I know of, that has extended itself in that way. Its a massive tree, a thousand years old. To the indigenous people it used to be sacred. It was very much bigger at one stage...half of it burnt down. It can provide shade for about a thousand people they say. Good memories for me ...I used to play in and around it as a kid...
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
Totally agree Vance.
Maybe there should be a style called whatever the tree calls for style.
Kind of a simple concept.
Tentakelaertje
Omono
Many of you seem to think this is about the cascade/formal upright sort of style, but it is NOT. NOT forest style, NOT flattop style.
It's all about the ...
..sort of styles.
If it quacks, walks and flies like a temple, doesn't that mean it's a temple?
Borgund Stavkirke, Norway. Christian church in Norway, Scandinavia. Built around 1150.
Uppsala Temple, Sweden. Temple for the pagan gods Odin, Thor and Freyr. Built before the 11th century.
Parthenon, Athens, Greece. Built for the greek godess Athena, around 437 B.C.
Intikancha/Coricancha, Cuzco, Peru. Dedicated to Inti, Incan god of the Sun. No idea when it was built.
Pashupinath Temple, Kathmandu, Nepal. Unknown when built, but existence goes back to at least 400 B.C.
Now, if we change the word 'temple' for 'bonsai' and pretend there's bonsai pictured, the point becomes quite clear. This IS the sort of style I mean. They're all temples, all different, but in ways the same. Of course it's possible some of these, or similar temples have been templates/inspirations for each other, as Chinese bonsai has been for Japanese bonsai, and Japanese bonsai is for the rest of the world.
I'm just trying to map the different styles around the world, so I can understand better. I'm also very curious and trying expand my own living-bubble. By no means I'm saying that I know it all or am the best artist in the world. We all know that would be a lie. Of course happiness is very important, and if ya can't enjoy it, why do it? But that's not the point. Like and dislike all you want, it's a free bonsai world, but please do try to be objective on this one thread. I don't wanna offend, brag or fight about who's got the best or most enjoyable bonsai.
All I want for this thread is a peek in the bubbles on the other side of the world and satisfy my curiosity.
We can do 'I like my style best' and 'Justin Bieber - Slayer showdown' threads another time. (For the record, JB does not stand a chance)
It's all about the ...
..sort of styles.
If it quacks, walks and flies like a temple, doesn't that mean it's a temple?
Borgund Stavkirke, Norway. Christian church in Norway, Scandinavia. Built around 1150.
Uppsala Temple, Sweden. Temple for the pagan gods Odin, Thor and Freyr. Built before the 11th century.
Parthenon, Athens, Greece. Built for the greek godess Athena, around 437 B.C.
Intikancha/Coricancha, Cuzco, Peru. Dedicated to Inti, Incan god of the Sun. No idea when it was built.
Pashupinath Temple, Kathmandu, Nepal. Unknown when built, but existence goes back to at least 400 B.C.
Now, if we change the word 'temple' for 'bonsai' and pretend there's bonsai pictured, the point becomes quite clear. This IS the sort of style I mean. They're all temples, all different, but in ways the same. Of course it's possible some of these, or similar temples have been templates/inspirations for each other, as Chinese bonsai has been for Japanese bonsai, and Japanese bonsai is for the rest of the world.
I'm just trying to map the different styles around the world, so I can understand better. I'm also very curious and trying expand my own living-bubble. By no means I'm saying that I know it all or am the best artist in the world. We all know that would be a lie. Of course happiness is very important, and if ya can't enjoy it, why do it? But that's not the point. Like and dislike all you want, it's a free bonsai world, but please do try to be objective on this one thread. I don't wanna offend, brag or fight about who's got the best or most enjoyable bonsai.
All I want for this thread is a peek in the bubbles on the other side of the world and satisfy my curiosity.
We can do 'I like my style best' and 'Justin Bieber - Slayer showdown' threads another time. (For the record, JB does not stand a chance)
Tentakelaertje
Omono
Thanks for replying Anthony! So if I understand correctly, only a very small percentage of the native species in S. America are useful for bonsai? Are you guys importing a lot, or just using native stuff? Does the Latino Bonsai stuff make sense to you? And would ya plz send K my greetings?
Tentakelaertje
Omono
Gr8 idea, also add a style called 'happiness first bitches'. Shouldn't be a very hard style either.
Agreed, mr. Vance! After all, the only person one is trapped with for his entire life is himself. We've all seen your work, and I know I'm admiring it, so we all know how your work looks like, but how would YOU describe your style?
Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
Maarten,
I can only guess at what exists in South and Central America, remember they have three
zones of Climate.
Tierra Fria
Tierra Templado
Tierra Tropicale,
and that is a great deal of land.
Never been to either zone of South or Central America. Some US, and some parts of the UK
and Italy.
Here in Trinidad we speak a variation of English, dialect and the Queen's English.
We are educated to Europe, USA, and Canada.
From 1980/81 K brought home trees from the US, backyard Lafayette, Louisiana, and from a
mail order place in Texas, called the Bonsai Farm. I believe near San Antonio.
With the use of a refrigerator, those zone 9 or so trees have been kept alive.
Plus a few love our climate - Texas Ebony for example.
Chase Rosade's assistant also gave gifts of Nicodemia diversifolia, and what used to be called
the weeping cherry - also used to be called -Malpighia punicifolia.
K brought trees from China, coming through Italy, and made some S.African friends and some
Chinese friends. Gifts of seed and a Sageretia t. that likes to grow trunks, but not branches.
Over there he grew, Cedrus of libani, pomegrante, mugho pine, zelkova and lots of thingees
that would not grow over here.
By the way.
@Vance if you are reading, you need to remember we both have experience growing in zone 7
to zone 9 and indoors. Gravel and compost.
The zelkova, pomegranate, stayed on the outside window sill in winter.
All times going home we needed a Phytosantiary [spelling ? ] certificate.
Trinidad, allows no pines, but junipers, everything else, no soil only bareroot..
A Japanese chap - a Y.Danbara, sent J.B.pine and Maple seed packs.
Some of the J.B.pines are still alive, K kept one, but the maples never grew.
Around 1987 / 88 not dead sure.
In 1990 to 93, from UK, via Holland, from China. Brought in a few types of Chinese Elm,
a few types of Sageretia t. Serissa s., a Gingko, 2 common maples - trident [ died back in 2006 or
so ] 3 leaf sizes of Fukien teas.
The stock plants are still alive, and two were supposed to be around 35 years, Chinese elms.
All of the original sageretias passed, but the cuttings have multiplied and self seeded the yard.
So now once in a while we harvest - yard- a - dori
Same for two of the Fukien tea types.
But along the way, the void was also filled by the backyard West Indian Cherry [ Malpighia e ]
seedlings of Tamarindus i, cuttings of the Gmelina.
Native guava types Myrcia a., and other strange things.
What was noticed was that stuff from China was in clay and had been cut out of the soil in
China near Canton. Zone 9
AND thriving in a zone 13b or so.
We don't dig any yamadori, saw what happens when folk go crazy and how much damage they
do, digging.
We collect seedlings, and stumps left back from side of the road cleaning.
Sadly, most of the folk who attempt Bonsai down here, and don't last, try to collect to sell.
K is away for 6 months, commission being done abroad. So I am holding the fort, plus handling
all loose ends.
I hope that some of our enthusiasm passes onto you. From one who were once in Bonsai at 17/18
and 25 or so.
Remember - ground grow.
Good Day
Anthony
I can only guess at what exists in South and Central America, remember they have three
zones of Climate.
Tierra Fria
Tierra Templado
Tierra Tropicale,
and that is a great deal of land.
Never been to either zone of South or Central America. Some US, and some parts of the UK
and Italy.
Here in Trinidad we speak a variation of English, dialect and the Queen's English.
We are educated to Europe, USA, and Canada.
From 1980/81 K brought home trees from the US, backyard Lafayette, Louisiana, and from a
mail order place in Texas, called the Bonsai Farm. I believe near San Antonio.
With the use of a refrigerator, those zone 9 or so trees have been kept alive.
Plus a few love our climate - Texas Ebony for example.
Chase Rosade's assistant also gave gifts of Nicodemia diversifolia, and what used to be called
the weeping cherry - also used to be called -Malpighia punicifolia.
K brought trees from China, coming through Italy, and made some S.African friends and some
Chinese friends. Gifts of seed and a Sageretia t. that likes to grow trunks, but not branches.
Over there he grew, Cedrus of libani, pomegrante, mugho pine, zelkova and lots of thingees
that would not grow over here.
By the way.
@Vance if you are reading, you need to remember we both have experience growing in zone 7
to zone 9 and indoors. Gravel and compost.
The zelkova, pomegranate, stayed on the outside window sill in winter.
All times going home we needed a Phytosantiary [spelling ? ] certificate.
Trinidad, allows no pines, but junipers, everything else, no soil only bareroot..
A Japanese chap - a Y.Danbara, sent J.B.pine and Maple seed packs.
Some of the J.B.pines are still alive, K kept one, but the maples never grew.
Around 1987 / 88 not dead sure.
In 1990 to 93, from UK, via Holland, from China. Brought in a few types of Chinese Elm,
a few types of Sageretia t. Serissa s., a Gingko, 2 common maples - trident [ died back in 2006 or
so ] 3 leaf sizes of Fukien teas.
The stock plants are still alive, and two were supposed to be around 35 years, Chinese elms.
All of the original sageretias passed, but the cuttings have multiplied and self seeded the yard.
So now once in a while we harvest - yard- a - dori
Same for two of the Fukien tea types.
But along the way, the void was also filled by the backyard West Indian Cherry [ Malpighia e ]
seedlings of Tamarindus i, cuttings of the Gmelina.
Native guava types Myrcia a., and other strange things.
What was noticed was that stuff from China was in clay and had been cut out of the soil in
China near Canton. Zone 9
AND thriving in a zone 13b or so.
We don't dig any yamadori, saw what happens when folk go crazy and how much damage they
do, digging.
We collect seedlings, and stumps left back from side of the road cleaning.
Sadly, most of the folk who attempt Bonsai down here, and don't last, try to collect to sell.
K is away for 6 months, commission being done abroad. So I am holding the fort, plus handling
all loose ends.
I hope that some of our enthusiasm passes onto you. From one who were once in Bonsai at 17/18
and 25 or so.
Remember - ground grow.
Good Day
Anthony
GroveKeeper
Shohin
How do you train zanthoxylum? It's all over the place in my area.
Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
Grovekeeper,
ground grow for trunk and first 6 branches, takes 2 years on our side.
You can use seedlings or cuttings.
Remove, place in a large bonsai pot, we use plastic bonsai pots and train for branchlets.
Likes lots of sun, will wilt on new shoots if it runs dry.
Not much more.
The Chinese however have grown a beautiful weeping style.
If I can find the episode on Youtube, I will leave it here for you.
Will take a while to find that was about 3 or 4 years ago.
New growth can attract ants and aphids on our side.
Either neem spray or cut back to first new leaf if needed and dump the aphids.
On our side, as usual freely draining soil.
Hope to see some efforts in the next few years.
Good Day
Anthony
ground grow for trunk and first 6 branches, takes 2 years on our side.
You can use seedlings or cuttings.
Remove, place in a large bonsai pot, we use plastic bonsai pots and train for branchlets.
Likes lots of sun, will wilt on new shoots if it runs dry.
Not much more.
The Chinese however have grown a beautiful weeping style.
If I can find the episode on Youtube, I will leave it here for you.
Will take a while to find that was about 3 or 4 years ago.
New growth can attract ants and aphids on our side.
Either neem spray or cut back to first new leaf if needed and dump the aphids.
On our side, as usual freely draining soil.
Hope to see some efforts in the next few years.
Good Day
Anthony
M. Frary
Bonsai Godzilla
That tree in your popping buds thread. You know. The one you guessed at being a hornbeam? Didn't even know what type of tree you were collecting. No pictures even yet,just an imaginary tree. What style are you planning for it?
Woodland Spirit
Chumono
Aphids die if you use window cleaner on them. Some other soaps work. Not all trees tolerate it but most do.
I usually just wash the devils off with a sprayer.
Ants can't get past diatomatious earth. At least not around here.
Aphids die from it as well.
I usually just wash the devils off with a sprayer.
Ants can't get past diatomatious earth. At least not around here.
Aphids die from it as well.
GroveKeeper
Shohin
Thanks for the advice. I'm going to make some cuttings but I'm also interesting in collecting. How hard do you cut back the top when digging up zanthoxylum.?
jomawa
Shohin
Picture is of a subculture type bonsai, yet they may be found in cultures everywhere, except maybe Japan, where they simply chop the newb's hand off or have them stick a knife in their belly for being so disrespectful of the art of bonsai. These can only be called pre-bonsai because they still require one to two decades of whacking to be bonsai. Examples of this (lack of) class of bonsai can fall in either of the following categories.
--- Infantile Bonsai - With a great deal of forgiveness, are named for the lack of skill and/or knowledge at this level, generally only crafted by a new bonsaist. (Beware, some newb's take offense at this description). These are characterized by the lack of any bonsai progression.
--- Whimsical or Laughable Bonsai - (Thought to be named by a viewer's stand point looking back, fully remembering the time spent getting beyond the learning curve/childish bonsai mindset, but is possibly named for bonsaist's at large, considering their early years.) Bonsai of this nature may be crafted by the infantile bonsaist, or at any level beyond that, by a bonsaist simply trying to make a statement of some sort, (whatever that may be).
The saving factor of "Whimsy" (pictured), even though it be infantile in the extreme with "trunks" less than 1/8" diameter, the soil has been changed to approx. 80% pumice, Osmocote 14-14-14 has been added, and the internodes on these vine maples are only about 1/2" long. Also, assuming they live until this fall when the leaves have turned to yellow, a photo may be taken where the base and the leaves compliment each other, making a more complete and pleasing photo.
* Author was unable to google comparable terms from other languages for these two categories of bonsai. *
eferguson1974
Chumono
Now thats American!
eferguson1974
Chumono
Amen! To both of you! Im trying to learn to torture trees in a way that I think suits them and my eye. And keep'em alive. Do they look Japanese? No. Do I? Less. I like them. My guests always like them. I get to learn all the time from this bunch of nuts about stearing them in the direction I want. Call it Sinatra style. My way. lol.
But really, if one had identical trees for each style to start with, can you tell which was styled by a Japanese vs Chinese artist? If they could start out identical would a Japanese person style it in a way that its obviously not been syled by a person from China or South Africa or the USA? Or does the trees structure and character have more to do with it? If we all observe the same styling rules and a given tree has x number of limbs and a twisty trunk, will the Japanese do it one way and the Chinese another? Or is it really whats possible with that given shape? Is there that much diference?
Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
Grovekeeper,
never needed to collect. The cuttings grow so fast in pots [ but build no trunk size ] and the grow troughs are so convenient [ ground growing ]
For many of our trees, the grow troughs, make us lazy.
Good Day
Anthony
Eric,
the Chinese technique from around Canton, produces trees that often look more like Chinese Ink paintings and they also tend to be more
innovative, but in way, that partners well with the tree.
Good Day
Anthony
never needed to collect. The cuttings grow so fast in pots [ but build no trunk size ] and the grow troughs are so convenient [ ground growing ]
For many of our trees, the grow troughs, make us lazy.
Good Day
Anthony
Eric,
the Chinese technique from around Canton, produces trees that often look more like Chinese Ink paintings and they also tend to be more
innovative, but in way, that partners well with the tree.
Good Day
Anthony
With same material advise would maybe be something like this:
Japanese: put some wire on and bend it.
American: it needs a chop
European: since its ugly already you should make it more ugly
Chinese: it just needs a big rock and some smaller rocks to go with it.
Tentakelaertje
Omono
Maarten,
I can only guess at what exists in South and Central America, remember they have three
zones of Climate.
Tierra Fria
Tierra Templado
Tierra Tropicale,
and that is a great deal of land.
Never been to either zone of South or Central America. Some US, and some parts of the UK
and Italy.
Here in Trinidad we speak a variation of English, dialect and the Queen's English.
We are educated to Europe, USA, and Canada.
From 1980/81 K brought home trees from the US, backyard Lafayette, Louisiana, and from a
mail order place in Texas, called the Bonsai Farm. I believe near San Antonio.
With the use of a refrigerator, those zone 9 or so trees have been kept alive.
Plus a few love our climate - Texas Ebony for example.
Chase Rosade's assistant also gave gifts of Nicodemia diversifolia, and what used to be called
the weeping cherry - also used to be called -Malpighia punicifolia.
K brought trees from China, coming through Italy, and made some S.African friends and some
Chinese friends. Gifts of seed and a Sageretia t. that likes to grow trunks, but not branches.
Over there he grew, Cedrus of libani, pomegrante, mugho pine, zelkova and lots of thingees
that would not grow over here.
By the way.
@Vance if you are reading, you need to remember we both have experience growing in zone 7
to zone 9 and indoors. Gravel and compost.
The zelkova, pomegranate, stayed on the outside window sill in winter.
All times going home we needed a Phytosantiary [spelling ? ] certificate.
Trinidad, allows no pines, but junipers, everything else, no soil only bareroot..
A Japanese chap - a Y.Danbara, sent J.B.pine and Maple seed packs.
Some of the J.B.pines are still alive, K kept one, but the maples never grew.
Around 1987 / 88 not dead sure.
In 1990 to 93, from UK, via Holland, from China. Brought in a few types of Chinese Elm,
a few types of Sageretia t. Serissa s., a Gingko, 2 common maples - trident [ died back in 2006 or
so ] 3 leaf sizes of Fukien teas.
The stock plants are still alive, and two were supposed to be around 35 years, Chinese elms.
All of the original sageretias passed, but the cuttings have multiplied and self seeded the yard.
So now once in a while we harvest - yard- a - dori
Same for two of the Fukien tea types.
But along the way, the void was also filled by the backyard West Indian Cherry [ Malpighia e ]
seedlings of Tamarindus i, cuttings of the Gmelina.
Native guava types Myrcia a., and other strange things.
What was noticed was that stuff from China was in clay and had been cut out of the soil in
China near Canton. Zone 9
AND thriving in a zone 13b or so.
We don't dig any yamadori, saw what happens when folk go crazy and how much damage they
do, digging.
We collect seedlings, and stumps left back from side of the road cleaning.
Sadly, most of the folk who attempt Bonsai down here, and don't last, try to collect to sell.
K is away for 6 months, commission being done abroad. So I am holding the fort, plus handling
all loose ends.
I hope that some of our enthusiasm passes onto you. From one who were once in Bonsai at 17/18
and 25 or so.
Remember - ground grow.
Good Day
Anthony
Thanks for all the info Anthony!
The enthousiasm of K and yours sure does pass down
I always enjoy your work, and love the way you experiment.
Funny you remember that trees! After all, it turned out to be hornbeam. I can put on some pics if you like. There should still be pics in the original IBC thread, I'll give 'em a sniff and put em somewhere here.
If you mean the cascade sort of styles, for #1 I planned to do some fairytale/tritrunk, since it already is ugly
And for #2 I wanted to layer off a bigass piece, turn it into a doubletrunk and make the straight phonepole into a broom or something.
If you mean the sorta styles this thread's supposed to be about, it certainly is gonna fit in the 'hackedtheshitouttait' and the 'somuchfun' style! Also in the not-so-manicured and naturalistic style I think.
I'll give it a thread I think!
Similar threads
