Shohin Holly Bonsai Tree Help?

[Poink88]

Both posted pic looks the same to me size wise.

Shohin is the bonsai size.

IF this is a yaupon holly "nana" it will be slow growing...can get big but will take a long time.
IF this is a yaupon holly of the larger variety, it can reach more than 10 feet. I have a few that I collected & chopped down to 10" from 7 feet tall. Those can grow much faster if I want to and let it. It really depends on what your goals are and there are various ways to attain it.

 

[l1ght]

Well really, for what I want to do, I don't want it to grow much at all, height wise. I just want to get thick foliage and some extra thin branches in the canopy. I like the two separate thick branches just the way they are, so I will most likely prune any new branches that form too low.

Anyways, regardless of what species it is, what do I do with it in NJ? How can I make sure it stays alive and healthy all year around?


Thanks btw!

Also, here's another picture:

 

[Poink88]

I see you replaced the 2nd pic.

I will be brutal (as always). I hope you did not pay much for this since most of the branches you have is basically useless and need to be removed if you want a good tree. If you want a pom-pom tree, this will do. You can probably buy/get/find a much better tree from Lowe's, Home Depot, or Walmart than this. Sorry just want you to learn from this experience.

 

[l1ght]

What do you mean by useless? And what do you mean by "good tree"? Like, if I want thick foliage, then I need to remove lots of branches? I paid about $30 for it..

 

[Poink88]

What do you mean by useless? And what do you mean by "good tree"? Like, if I want thick foliage, then I need to remove lots of branches? I paid about $30 for it..

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

In my eye, there is nothing here that makes it a good bonsai. It can be, but with lots of time and effort. For me, a good tree must have good trunk, good nebari (root base), & good branches (primary, 2nd, 3rd, etc.) in this order.

If you are happy with it and if it fits your purpose then all is good.

Check your zone...Yaupon Holly is supposed to be hardy from zone 7a to 10a. Leave it outside to receive lots of sunshine and do not over water!!!

 

[l1ght]

Could you show me examples of what you consider to be a good Holly bonsai?

 

[l1ght]

It says my part of NJ is zone 6b.. Should I be worried?

 

[Poink88]

Could you show me examples of what you consider to be a good Holly bonsai?

There are lots if you do Google search but here are a few of mine I have been working on for a few months. They are not yet bonsai and have a long way to go but these have better "bones" or structure to build on (in my eye) .

http://bonsainut.com/forums/showthread.php?8590-Poink88-s-Ilkex-Vomitoria-(Yaupon-Holly)

 

[l1ght]

Wow those are crazy big! The one I have is really small though lol...

Also, why do you cut them down so drastically? Did you not like the original placement of the branches and foliage?

If I wanted to keep my Holly like it is now, except with more/thicker foliage in the same areas, what would I do? Just keep trimming and letting those areas grow back? Would I need to wire anything? I really like the upright branch style to it already.

 

[Poink88]

Also, why do you cut them down so drastically? Did you not like the original placement of the branches and foliage?

Personal preference and space limitations. I have the nebari, trunk and some primary branches...I need to plan for it's growth while I build the branch ramification. Some problem I see with others is they chop back to the planned "finished" size and fail to factor this in (branch building) leading to a somewhat disproportionate tree at times.

If I wanted to keep my Holly like it is now, except with more/thicker foliage in the same areas, what would I do? Just keep trimming and letting those areas grow back? Would I need to wire anything? I really like the upright branch style to it already.

They do not wire too well and respond better to clip and grow method. You need to learn how to properly prune back your tree every now and then, else you will end up with knobby branches where you frequently cut it back.

Read a lot, look at lots of pictures online and see what makes a good bonsai...concentrate on the details, not just the entire picture.

good luck!

 

[rockm]

I'm not really convinced think this is a yaupon holly, or a holly or any sort.

First, what dealer did you buy it from? Yaupon holly is not all that common among the more prolific bonsai sellers. It's also a southern U.S. native plant and rarely makes it to beginners.

If it is, you will have some difficulty overwintering it. It can be kept outside in the winter in Zone 7 and above (check USDA hardiness zone maps for your area). Below that it will require some protection, possibly a cold greenhouse...

 

[milehigh_7]

I see you replaced the 2nd pic.

I will be brutal (as always). I hope you did not pay much for this since most of the branches you have is basically useless and need to be removed if you want a good tree. If you want a pom-pom tree, this will do. You can probably buy/get/find a much better tree from Lowe's, Home Depot, or Walmart than this. Sorry just want you to learn from this experience.

We have to remember l1ght is new.

What do you mean by useless? And what do you mean by "good tree"? Like, if I want thick foliage, then I need to remove lots of branches? I paid about $30 for it..

Ok Poink is right and here is why. Bonsai is all about proportions and creating somewhat of an optical illusion of tree one would see in nature. Of course there are examples that are more literally natural looking and examples are a bit more abstract but the over-arching goal is the same. You must fool the eye into thinking it is the correct scale.

The reason he says it is "useless" is if you look at it, you will see it more closely resembles a slingshot than a tree. The trunk and the two main branches are very nearly the same diameter with almost zero taper.

There are some good rules to abide by when you are first starting that will give you a general idea on what dimensions the eye expects to see. Here is a link to a proportion calculator that is a neat little tool:
Bonsai Proportion Calculator:

I did a search for slingshot bonsai and I found this thread about a tree that has a similar issue.
Sling shot example:

The advice given was all about how to fix the "slingshot" look. The problem is that it is not a natural look for a tree.

All these things said, the first part of bonsai is learning to keep your trees alive so it is my suggestion that you use this tree for just that. Keep on learning it takes years to get this stuff.

 

[Redwood Ryan]

I'm not really convinced think this is a yaupon holly, or a holly or any sort.

First, what dealer did you buy it from? Yaupon holly is not all that common among the more prolific bonsai sellers. It's also a southern U.S. native plant and rarely makes it to beginners.

It looks like he bought it from a seller on eBay from California...

http://myworld.ebay.com/takashima_bonsai/?_trksid=p4340.l2559

 

[linlaoboo]

Hello, I'm in your neck of woods so I can tell you $30 isn't alot to spend on a bonsai with a pot but I see you can use lots of info from Bonsai books and by joining a local club. You might also spend less at a big box store buying landscaping trees and turn them into Bonsai with some knowledge, skills and time. I have no experience with hollies so can't comment on it.

There are trees that will do well indoors provided you leave them outside as much as you can from late Spring to Fall as I do the same with all my tropical trees. I've given up on Fujien Tea indoors but I have different kinds of Ficuses, Brasilien Habiscus and I just started growing Scheffleras. Some of these are debatable bonsai subjects but as long as the branches are woody, it's worth a shot. During their indoor season I keep them by south facing windows with supplemental cfl lighting from 5pm to 11 pm.

Bonsai practitioners often chop down larger trees with thick trunks to reduce it into Bonsai size. Small bonsai with big trunk and nebari is valued as more masculent. After the chop, they'll work on reducing the leave size to make the whole look more proportional like trees in nature. just my 2 cents.

If you're ever near the Flemington area, check out Allshapes Bonsai. Dave has alot of finished and starter material that might interest you.

 

[Poink88]

It looks like he bought it from a seller on eBay from California...

http://myworld.ebay.com/takashima_bonsai/?_trksid=p4340.l2559

Yep! Looks like he paid $42.00 + $12.75 shipping
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAP...0.l2557&hash=item3cc9182f4a&item=261071843146

 

[l1ght]

Well, the dealer is takashima_bonsai on ebay. It says it's a Holly Bonsai, but like I said before, I haven't the slightest clue if it is or is not.

As for the whole slingshot, I completely agree, and I understand it now believe it or not. I'm not sure how many trees in nature you would find looking like a barren slingshot, unless it was dying or already dead haha.

With that in mind though, I have the idea that if I can get double or triple the amount of foliage, the foliage from both branches would converge and grow together, and then the canopy would look like one whole tree, with a tiny split in the middle. I've seen that on many trees in the wild, and that's pretty much what I am going for.

 

[Redwood Ryan]

Yep! Looks like he paid $42.00 + $12.75 shipping
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAP...843146[/QUOTE] A little bit more than $30 :p

 

[l1ght]

lol, I said it was *around* $30

 

[jk_lewis]

Probably Ilex crenata, Japanese holly. NJ is a bit cold for I. vomitoria, Youpon holly.

This most definitely is not an indoor plant, and should take your winters well. Maybe on the coldest nights you could upturn a bucket over it for protection.

 

[Poink88]

lol, I said it was *around* $30

It is okay...it does tell me how you feel about your purchase.

As I said, learn from this experience.