Serissa Problem

[stacy allen muse]

no, the kitty litter that is used in other countries is rather different... here is some info reguarding...
http://www.bonsai4me.com/Basics/Basicscatlitter.htm
I might be more worried your cat might start doing it's buisness in it... only joking. Other than that I pretty much agree with the others, watch your watering. The change of soil will help.

 

[quincey]

Like Treebeard said, most species except tropicals need a period of cold. If this period is ignored, which mostly happens when the trees are continuously kept inside, they go into a forced "hibernation". Most trees lose their foliage except for evergreens like pines. This forced "hibernation" usually kills the tree.

On the cat litter part, I've read some stuff on Harry's site and I started to try out the cat litter in the Netherlands that Jerry Norbury tested on consistency. He froze the stuff and thawed it every other day, surprisingly it kept it structure and it looks just like Akadama. It's now my potting soil for a Ficus Microcarpa and a cotoneaster for about two weeks. Up to no I had no problems with the plants even though its raining a lot here the last couple of weeks.

 

[treebeard55]

... I see you are in Zone 5. How do you manage when it goes below 25? Do you have a place where the temps are stable at 25? Thanks. - G

Gail, sorry I didn't respond sooner: didn't see your post until now. (Busy times.) I overwinter serissas in our unheated "mudroom." I monitor the temperatures there and watch the daily forecast. The mudroom consistently stays about 10 degrees F warmer than the outside air. So when we get a forecast for lows in the teens, I move them inside the house for a nite.

Actually, that's the plan for this winter. Last winter I simply left two of them in the mudroom, and the temp there got down to 12 F one nite. (It was close to 0 outside.) That was too cold: killed them both. But I keep "insurance" serissas with my tropicals, and root cuttings when necessary. That way I have serissas to work with as I keep on learning where the winter boundaries are for the species.

Bill Swain, in western MA, left a serissa in the ground, heavily mulched, last winter. Last I heard, he wasn't sure whether it had survived or not; there seemed to be a chance that it actually had.

 

[stacy allen muse]

I wanted to comment on the temps with trees in winter. I know where alot of you all live it gets a lot colder than it does here in florida, and lasts a lot longer to say the least. I do not grow my plants to be indoors, I personally believe they never do well inside, without spending a lot of time and money to try to simulate the outdoors. Especially since where I live, they pretty much are able to reside outside year around.

I thought I would post my normal routine of dealing with the cold, in the hopes that it might help others... I believe that all trees( including trops.) need some type of winter, some more some less. The trops. I usually bring in once it starts dropping below 40 degrees, and they go right back out when it returns to about 40. Evergreens or plants that go dormant stay out regardless here; Pines, Junipers, Cypress (Including Bald Cypress), Podocarpus, Azaleas, etc. Everything else when temps are going to dip below freezing come in, and again go right back out afterwards

Now, I truely understand that for others this is not that cold, but for the must part some of this should still be relevant ??? I believe, the whole point is to allow the tree to experience some cold, but to prevent it from go beyond it's limits. So, even though I don't own a greenhouse, I would imagine the same routine would still apply. Oh, one other thing I forgot to mention, that when I bring them in it is to a location that is only a few degrees warmer than outside, so close those heater vents... and pretty much cut watering all together...

 

[Bill S]

Steve I have new growth on those I planted in the garden, thru Jan they saw reg temps in teens and 20's, I think it's sucker growth, but goes to show you. Protect them a bit and I think they can be grown in zone 5.

Stacy, we can keep BC up here too, need a bit of protection but doable.

We need cold frames around here or we would be really limited, keeps it interesting, and some winter practice, to keep me going.

 

[treebeard55]

Steve I have new growth on those I planted in the garden, thru Jan they saw reg temps in teens and 20's, I think it's sucker growth, but goes to show you. Protect them a bit and I think they can be grown in zone 5....

OK, I said that if yours survived, I'd repeat your experiment here; we're a bit colder. I'll let everyone know how it turns out! Who knows? I have to admit I didn't expect yours to make it, but great that they did.

 

[treebeard55]

Stacey, I'm sure your method works fine for the climate where you live. It sounds like you're pretty conscientious, too, if I may say so.

... I believe that all trees( including trops.) need some type of winter, some more some less.

No offense, but I disagree with this (at least as stated.) I grew up a couple thousand miles or so to the south of you, within 50 miles of the equator. There were -- are -- only two seasons, wet and dry. Even in the "dry" season it rained every day; the difference was in how much it rained, and at what point in the day.

(The locals referred to the seasons as "summer" and "winter" ("verano" and "invierno,") but those were just labels of convenience. The dry season ("summer") is actually a bit cooler than the rainy season.)

Overnite lows never got below the mid-60's where we were, and everything grew year-round. Each species had its own annual fruiting season, but those were scattered all over the calendar. There was no season when most fruits and crops ripened, as happens in autumn at the latitude where I live now.

All that to say: if you mean you believe every species needs a cold period annually, I have to disagree. My own experience does not bear that out.

 

[stacy allen muse]

No, treebeard, you are absolutely correct... that in all actuality, not all trees need a winter. That is as one gets closer and closer towards the equator, one would find an appearent lack of any seasons. Even where I live this for the most part holds true...
Now having said that, could one not argue that yes, at least in bonsai, all plants for the most part need a winter. Whether that is with actual cold... or in warmer climates through a forced process like defoliating???
After which the trees become active and take on new life, where with out it they sometimes become stagnant.
What do you think???

Also, I understand that alot of you guys have been involved with bonsai for some time... and for the most part we have worked out our winter routines. I thought I might post what I did, mainly for those who haven't...

 

[Bill S]

Steve I got down on the hands and knees last night and checked them out, 2 of the 3 are alive, both the live ones have new growth off the trunk, all the previous branch growth snaps easily(does that mean anything?). The 2 that made it I am pretty sure are the type that have the trumpet shaped flowers, the snow rose is the one that is permanantly dormant. Have to chase down some cuttings now for the snow rose.

I think in the right location mulched up really well, these might be able to be ground grown in 5A, 6 would be better, do you have a sunny jog in the house that could stand a nice flowering bush?

 

[treebeard55]

... as one gets closer and closer towards the equator, one would find an apparent lack of any seasons. Even where I live this for the most part holds true...

Not trying to sound picky (and hope I don't,) but there is not a "lack" of seasons in Ecuador, where I grew up: it's that the seasons are different from what there is in the earth's temperate zone. I think that matters in understanding the growth patterns of our trees. And in Florida, no, your seasons aren't as distinct as they are up here; but they're still the same seasons.

... could one not argue that, at least in bonsai, all plants for the most part need a winter? ... [maybe] through a forced process like defoliating???

Interesting question! I can't recall ever reading any literature about it, and it's one that I haven't considered myself. (This cross-pollination of ideas is one of the great things about a bonsai forum!)

My first response is that if a species does not go thru a regular annual dormancy in nature, then there's no benefit to forcing a dormancy when it's a bonsai. It might even be injurious if repeated over and over. <musing>

But you're suggesting that being in a pot makes even a forced dormancy beneficial? That I don't know, nor, as I said, have I considered it. Anyone else?

A few tropical species are drought-deciduous. Their natural range is arid/desert, and there is a regular annual drought, when they drop their leaves and go into dormancy for the duration. For a species like that, it would be a good idea to give it an annual forced drought as a bonsai, and send it into dormancy for -- a couple of months, perhaps?

... a lot of you guys have been involved with bonsai for some time... for the most part we have worked out our winter routines. I thought I might post what I did, mainly for those who haven't...

You're right, and you're right. A newcomer to bonsai who lives in, say, Honolulu, will benefit more from knowing your routine than from knowing mine.