SD collecting 2013

[jk_lewis]

To The Steve:

I'm not "dictating." Just expressing an opinion. There is absolutely no way I could dictate to anyone on the west coast from out here (or out there if I still lived there). IF I still went out collecting, I'd do my absolute best to gather collectible trees and just a couple of them, at most. I'm quite capable of nursing trees I've collected.

To Brian . . . I have been doing bonsai for 40 years now, which is really immaterial, and have more trees on my tables than I'm able to easily care for any more. Thank God that none of them are still at that you-gotta-tend-them-every-day stage!

And yes, I'm only expressing my opinion but as to whether I was "questioning your environmental consciousness", I leave that up to your conscience. Over the years I've seen the messes bonsai collectors often leave behind, and I've heard repeated excuses that there are "plenty more out there." You can try telling that to would be Shimpaku colletors in Japan, or orchid collectors in the Everglades.

I'm not "against" colleting; just irresponsible collecting.

 

[Martin Sweeney]

Jim,

I do not see any evidence that there was irresponsible collecting occurring here. I don't know Brian from a hole in the wall, but I think you should apologize to him for implying, or causing others to infer from your statements, that he was being irresponsible.

Regards,
Martin

 

[TheSteve]

And yes, I'm only expressing my opinion but as to whether I was "questioning your environmental consciousness", I leave that up to your conscience. Over the years I've seen the messes bonsai collectors often leave behind, and I've heard repeated excuses that there are "plenty more out there." You can try telling that to would be Shimpaku colletors in Japan, or orchid collectors in the Everglades.

I'm not "against" colleting; just irresponsible collecting.

Okay, first he left a great tree behind because of lack of confidence that it would survive. Sounds responsible enough... Also, the argument about the shimpaku junipers of Japan is lost when you think about the fact that the entire country is 1200 square miles smaller than the state of Montana with a bonsai demand exponentially higher than here. It's a bit of a supply and demand thing. I'm not saying we could never wipe out our ancient tree population, I'm just saying that we have a much higher supply and much less demand than what you're comparing too. It's a bit of a straw man argument really. When you figure in the laws in place for collecting trees and the fact that virtually every nation has import laws, we are in a much better situation than the native shimpaku were.

 

[TheSteve]

Also, I just want to clear up that I don't know Brian at all, never met him, or even really interacted with him on here. but I've collected trees and have friends who do as well, and I hate to see collecting get bashed every time someone mentions it. It's a bit like the battle over the deleted forums... if you don't like it why did you come to this part of the forum???

 

[TheSteve]

I think I'm done spamming this thread now... whew

 

[bonsai barry]

Brian, Great trip. I'm a naturalist employed seasonally by the National Park Service (where no collecting is ever allowed outside the scope of scientific research). From my experience working forr the federal government, I'm confident that NFS surveys the lands before determining how many permits should be issued so that the collection of trees is environmentally responsible. If you obtain permits then you are acting responsibly in collecting trees.

But the main reason of this post is to let you know how much I enjoyed your blog entry regarding your collecting trip. Keep up the good work.

 

[Dan W.]

It looks like you had a great trip Brian! I'm looking forward to seeing more... maybe some close-ups of the trees...?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

It looks like you had a great trip Brian! I'm looking forward to seeing more... maybe some close-ups of the trees...?

Thanks Martin, Steve, and Barry. No doubt that with 20 years of ever-increasing responsible collecting under my belt, Jim's assumptions here reveal more about him than me.

Dan, closer shots are on the way...for now, here are a few:

 

[Dav4]

I'll take 2, 3, and 5, please.

 

[Dan W.]

Looking good Brian.

 

[fore]

I'll take 2, 3, and 5, please.

LOL!!!

Good thing Brian you had boxes premade from yrs past. Making the box takes an enormous amt. of time. Looks like you're keeping them in shade, plan on keeping them there till established?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

We actually measured and custom-built those boxes specifically for each tree. It was a long day!

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

And on siting...yes, they're in an insulated garage, getting some morning sun, and misted several times a day, not too hot, not too cold. They'll stay there for several weeks, then go outside into shade for the rest of the year.

 

[Dav4]

And on siting...yes, they're in an insulated garage, getting some morning sun, and misted several times a day, not too hot, not too cold. They'll stay there for several weeks, then go outside into shade for the rest of the year.

Brian, wouldn't you want to give these guys more sun, particularly if you know you got some descent roots, and they were showing positive signs post collection, ie nice, bright green growing tips. I know you need to take this on a case by case basis, but I'd think full shade for the year may be too cautious?

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

I don't think it's too cautious, especially since most of these (if not all) were collected further back from the exposed cliffs, as essentially understory trees growing in quite a bit of shade. Once they establish themselves, more sun will be in order, but it seems less sun is the right move for now. We'll see...

 

[fore]

We actually measured and custom-built those boxes specifically for each tree. It was a long day!

Oh, my mistake, I saw the old wood so figured you guys had it easy hehe Nothing at all easy about the whole collecting experience, but it does have it's 'fun' parts too. Dragging trees up a hill isn't one of them, nor is making boxes lol

 

[Poink88]

Oh, my mistake, I saw the old wood so figured you guys had it easy hehe Nothing at all easy about the whole collecting experience, but it does have it's 'fun' parts too. Dragging trees up a hill isn't one of them, nor is making boxes lol

You got it all wrong...making boxes is your rest! LOL

 

[Dav4]

I don't think it's too cautious, especially since most of these (if not all) were collected further back from the exposed cliffs, as essentially understory trees growing in quite a bit of shade. Once they establish themselves, more sun will be in order, but it seems less sun is the right move for now. We'll see...

No, I absolutely agree with less sun for now. I guess the idea of keeping them in full shade for an entire growing season seemed a little extreme to me. My understanding of RMJ post collection is that they will tell you what to do within a month to six weeks. A tree that yellows and loses alot of interior foliage is super stressed needs to be kept in only a small amount of direct morning sun, extremely cautious watering, etc. However, one that has green growing tips greater then one month collection is growing roots, and would appreciate more sun to feed the process. Mind you, I've never collected anything like this, and am only relaying information I've gleaned through reading and researching. FWIW, I found it quite interesting that they were growing as understory trees, as I wouldn't think junipers of any type would last for long in the shade. You learn something new every day.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Found a few more photos...good stuff, all still there...

 

[fredtruck]

Brian, I'm glad you and Ron had an easier time collecting than the last trip you made, during which you ran out of water. Looks like you were much better prepared!