Satsuki azalea I.D

[RaginCajun]

I purchased this beautiful little shohin satsuki early 2023.. it was imported not too long prior to me buying it so this past yr I didn't touch it. It is full of vigor now! Looking forward to the flower show it will throw coming soon in a few months. I'm trying to i.d it. I was told by the seller it is either Hanabin or Hakasuru. Thanks any advance for any help or opinions. Suggestions are also welcome. I'm looking forward to being able to get it back into shape and begin building this tree. Photos attached

 

[rockm]

I purchased this beautiful little shohin satsuki early 2023.. it was imported not too long prior to me buying it so this past yr I didn't touch it. It is full of vigor now! Looking forward to the flower show it will throw coming soon in a few months. I'm trying to i.d it. I was told by the seller it is either Hanabin or Hakasuru. Thanks any advance for any help or opinions. Suggestions are also welcome. I'm looking forward to being able to get it back into shape and begin building this tree. Photos attached

Sorry to laugh, but once the ID tag from the tree's source is gone from a satsuki, it's pretty near impossible to tell exactly what it is. There are almost 2,000 varieties of Satsuki, all with different flowers, etc. Hanabin is probably out since the photos that come up online have flowers that are dramatically different than what you've pictured. As for Hakasuru, nothing comes up in a search.

All that is really beside the point. That's a pretty nice satsuki. The flowers are brilliant, nicely formed and small. It's got tight growth and a nice nebari. ID is really icing on the cake. Not really necessary. If you want to, you can get books that have pics of hundreds of varieties' flowers. You will drive yourself mad trying to match them with what you have.

Also, FWIW, it would be interesting to know where the seller got the plant. It looks to have been recently imported from Japan--the screen on the surface and azalea-specific pot are typical of those imports. Knowing the source in Japan might help ID it more specifically.

 

[RaginCajun]

I didn't ask many questions. Price was a steal.
It does have very tight, very small foliage. The flowers are the smallest of any satsuki I currently own or have owned in the past. It's not as winter hardy as the other satsuki I have experience with, as well. It dropped a lot more foliage than the others. Not sure if this information helps narrow it down at all. Thanks for the compliments.

 

[Pitoon]

@Glaucus may be able to give you a general idea.

 

[rockm]

Sorry to laugh, but once the ID tag from the tree's source is gone from a satsuki, it's pretty near impossible to tell exactly what it is. There are almost 2,000 varieties of Satsuki, all with different flowers, etc. Hanabin is probably out since the photos that come up online have flowers that are dramatically different than what you've pictured. As for Hakasuru, nothing comes up in a search.

All that is really beside the point. That's a pretty nice satsuki. The flowers are brilliant, nicely formed and small. It's got tight growth and a nice nebari. ID is really icing on the cake. Not really necessary. If you want to, you can get books that have pics of hundreds of varieties' flowers. You will drive yourself mad trying to match them with what you have.

Also, FWIW, it would be interesting to know where the seller got the plant. It looks to have been recently imported from Japan--the screen on the surface and azalea-specific pot are typical of those imports. Knowing the source in Japan might help ID it more specifically.

Generally, from what I understand, the smaller leaved varieties tend to be more winter hardy than larger leaved varieties. This one has very small leaves. Rick Garcia who operates the North American Satsuki Bonsai Center might help if you email him a photo. Don't know if he's traveling now though.

 

[RaginCajun]

Generally, from what I understand, the smaller leaved varieties tend to be more winter hardy than larger leaved varieties. This one has very small leaves. Rick Garcia who operates the North American Satsuki Bonsai Center might help if you email him a photo. Don't know if he's traveling now though.

That's interesting you should mention Rick, I actually was just tracking the shipment progress of Ricks book that I ordered. Be here Monday!
The way it worked out, a good friend of mine was at a shohin bonsai club event in Dallas.. she sent me photos of 2-3 trees for sale and a brief description of this particular tree as I was interested at first sight and inquired further. She sent a couple more photos of this tree and I pulled the trigger.

 

[Calnicky]

I purchased this beautiful little shohin satsuki early 2023.. it was imported not too long prior to me buying it so this past yr I didn't touch it. It is full of vigor now! Looking forward to the flower show it will throw coming soon in a few months. I'm trying to i.d it. I was told by the seller it is either Hanabin or Hakasuru. Thanks any advance for any help or opinions. Suggestions are also welcome. I'm looking forward to being able to get it back into shape and begin building this tree. Photos attached

You mention it was Imported. I thought that no one was importing trees (except maybe museums and very high end collections) due to USDA rules about having to bare root for inspection anything that comes in. (It can be done, it's just a little hard on the tree to be bare-rooted and then wait around for the inspector to show.) Is this not the case? Is it just a West Coast rule? Does anyone know?

 

[rockm]

You mention it was Imported. I thought that no one was importing trees (except maybe museums and very high end collections) due to USDA rules about having to bare root for inspection anything that comes in. (It can be done, it's just a little hard on the tree to be bare-rooted and then wait around for the inspector to show.) Is this not the case? Is it just a West Coast rule? Does anyone know?

You've confused what was being said. It is entirely possible to import trees. It's just time-consuming and potentially a huge HUGE hassle. IF you have the facilities, or know a seller/importer that has the facilities, you can import trees. High end collectors and museums have those relationships/facilities which include greenhouses to isolate trees up to two years. The importing process can include bare-rooting and fumigation--depends on species and age of the tree. That can kill or severely weaken those plants and cuts into possible profits. That's why higher quality bonsai imported from Japan are relatively more expensive than domestically-sourced bonsai.

I had one bonsai nursery owner friend who imported a dozen BIG old Chinese elm bonsai a while back. Very VERY nice trees (he planned to sell them for about $4 grand a piece). They were quarantined in Japan, then sent to the U.S. West coast for entry. They were bare rooted and fumigated, then sent to my friend here in Va. They were on his benches at his nursery and were being expertly cared for to recover. Everything was great for about three months. Then they began to die back, great big branches, then trunks. Some died back entirely to the roots. Others lived on in substantially reduced form--only 10-15 percent of their original form left. My friend had to sell them off at a catastrophic loss. That result is why importing can be a speculative, expensive thing to undertake.

There are several satsuki bonsai importers in the U.S. Rick Garcia is one, Dave Kruetz is another. I've got satsukis from both of those guys. They have the process down and have some pretty nice shohin and mame sized trees.

 

[RaginCajun]

You mention it was Imported. I thought that no one was importing trees (except maybe museums and very high end collections) due to USDA rules about having to bare root for inspection anything that comes in. (It can be done, it's just a little hard on the tree to be bare-rooted and then wait around for the inspector to show.) Is this not the case? Is it just a West Coast rule? Does anyone know?

I know of several importers of satsuki and pines that are their own entities. Darren Wong is one I think of off the top of my head, soh-juen bonsai. Darrens a full time dentist, he and his wife travel to Japan every yr, hand pick trees and have them imported back to the states.

 

[GGB]

I generally agree with rockm that identifying a satsuki without a tag is silly and possibly deterimentally if it's propogated. But in this case... it's very possible that it's the chinzan cultivar. it's extremely popular, I think possibly the most commonly imported variety? it trunks up quick. If there is no definite ID it's best to just call it satsuki azalea but I would use the chinzan variety as a guide for care

 

[rockm]

I know of several importers of satsuki and pines that are their own entities. Darren Wong is one I think of off the top of my head, soh-juen bonsai. Darrens a full time dentist, he and his wife travel to Japan every yr, hand pick trees and have them imported back to the states.

I know of someone who does the same. They've brought in some pretty spectacular (and huge) satsuki bonsai over the years. They don't sell their imports, but work with satsuki nursery 'masters' in Japan on the trees before they bring them back.

 

[RaginCajun]

I generally agree with rockm that identifying a satsuki without a tag is silly and possibly deterimentally if it's propogated. But in this case... it's very possible that it's the chinzan cultivar. it's extremely popular, I think possibly the most commonly imported variety? it trunks up quick. If there is no definite ID it's best to just call it satsuki azalea but I would use the chinzan variety as a guide for care

It was labeled as kazan family. But who knows
I appreciate your help. I always identify them all as satsuki azaleas anyways lol.

 

[RaginCajun]

I know of someone who does the same. They've brought in some pretty spectacular (and huge) satsuki bonsai over the years. They don't sell their imports, but work with satsuki nursery 'masters' in Japan on the trees before they bring them back.

Life Goals.

 

[Pitoon]

You mention it was Imported. I thought that no one was importing trees (except maybe museums and very high end collections) due to USDA rules about having to bare root for inspection anything that comes in. (It can be done, it's just a little hard on the tree to be bare-rooted and then wait around for the inspector to show.) Is this not the case? Is it just a West Coast rule? Does anyone know?

Anyone within the US can import Rhododendron indicum with a valid import permit from Japan.

Each species is regulated differently as well as the exporting country. Some species require quarantine upon entering the US for a specific amont of time while other species don't. Everything coming in has to be soil free and inspected, so timing can help.

Is it a hassle....depends what you are trying to import in.

 

[Glaucus]

Could be 'Chinzan', but it seems a bit denser than even 'Chinzan'? You have only one photo of a flower and that flower seems malformed and wet. So not good to ID off.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Can’t tell from this image either. Doesn’t feel Chinzan. Almost thought it was Kazan from one image then another was a bit off.

Not being cold hardy because it drops a lot more leaves than usual isn’t a good clue. All evergreen azaleas drop spring leaves in winter and the older a tree gets and the denser the habit the more leaves will more in fall.

Nevertheless it’s a really good tree to learn to up one’s practice on.

OP might want to check out the azalea picture identification thread when the azalea blooms again next year. It shows many of the common azalea flowers and some quite uncommon…. But not all.

Finally both David Krietz and Rick Gracia mentioned they are no longer importing. That may of been due to term situations, I do not know. Call and ask?

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[RaginCajun]

Could be 'Chinzan', but it seems a bit denser than even 'Chinzan'? You have only one photo of a flower and that flower seems malformed and wet. So not good to ID off.

It threw that one single bloom in December. I'm excited to see it flower out completely.

 

[Bob Hunter]

It threw that one single bloom in December. I'm excited to see it flower out completely.

When it blooms check out Shinzan

 

[RaginCajun]

When it blooms check out Shinzan

Thank you sir. I appreciate your time.

 

[Glaucus]

When it blooms check out Shinzan

Yup. Shinzan is a version of Chinzan. Not sure exactly how they are different. Might it be that Shinzan is a dwarf aka Kazan-like version of Chinzan?