Removing any algae-ridden bark at the base of a specimen upon a re-pot?

SU2

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So in my adventures over the past year I've made lots of mistakes, one being to put a bougie I really liked into a pure-perlite soil - while it surprisingly avoided chlorosis or any noticeable reduction in growth-rate, it would wilt very quickly which necessitated constant irrigation, like 3x/day a lot of the time (I could literally have droopy shoots within several hours of watering if the day was hot / windy enough, perlite just doesn't hold much and the box was kind of tight so there wasn't that much perlite anyways!)

As you may've guessed, the excessive water (and the excessive light from the brilliant-white reflectivity of the perlite itself) caused a green-algae build-up encircling the lowest parts of the trunk ie the surface//trunk area which, as time's gone on, has begun flaking a bit...am finding areas where there's new bark beneath this algae-ridden bark but often it's a very thin layer between the bad bark and the cambium:

Exhibit A-
(larger POV: 19700623_205216.jpg and a close-up: 19700623_205309.jpg )



Exhibit B-
(bigger POV: 19700623_205432.jpg and close-up: 19700623_205422.jpg )


So anyways I'm ready to remedy this guy's environment, just built a mesh-bottomed box (my favorite box yet!) that's ~20-25% larger perimeter (same depth) to transplant him into:

19700623_205128.jpg (am planning to use some fiberglass-mesh screening around the corners of the box, and likely some (real/pure) silicone around any of the metal-lathe's exposed, rough edges! Still expecting this box will need to be dissembled to safely remove a tree from it...will find out next year I guess!)


This is just 1 specimen that I'm in the middle of 'fixing the living quarters' for, but I've got many with similar problems. I'll brush 3% hydrogen peroxide on w/ a 2mm paintbrush here&there, it keeps the growth in-check but I've found no level of this will banish the mold, seems like once it's taken-hold it's there for good....I honestly wonder if it's not something that, with it being dug-in like this, is almost guaranteed to be the cause of slow-deaths on all the affected trees :/

For right now though, I've got my box made, (mostly) have my substrate ready and am wanting to transplant this guy, and - while I've got all this prime access to the tree's soil-level bark - I can't help but think of whether I should be removing the worst chunks? Obviously not removing so much that I'm leaving raw cambium but some areas just want to come off like I almost could've blown this piece off:
19700623_220904.jpg

Any advice on this would be greatly appreciated!! Suffice to say, the new substrate isn't pure perlite, I won't be creating that environment for it to thrive anymore but, if there's anything I can do while in the process of re-potting (aside from a thorough peroxide-brushing!) then I'd really like to do it, I just don't want to wing-it and start peeling bad bark and find that it was badly damaging to the cambium (so far as I understand this, the cambium is not susceptible to this green algae, that it 'partitions-off' such invasions, if I'm off-point there I'd love to be corrected!)

Thanks guys!! :)
 

Mellow Mullet

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I have algae and moss problems here due to the humidity and rain. I use a toothbrush with just plain water and a stiffer nylon brush that I got at Harbor Freight for the more stubborn stuff. I usually have to do this a couple of times a year.

The bark that is ready to come off usually just comes off with the brushing leaving the good stuff behind.

John
 

Cadillactaste

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If the moss still an issue after trying what John suggests. (Mellow Mullet) I went back and pulled up @Adair M 's advice. Which is stated below.

You need to start killing the moss back off the bark. It will destroy it if you don't.

Dab white wine vinegar onto the moss on the trunks using Qtips or small cotton balls. Cover the soil surface as you don't want to drip vinegar on the soil.

In a couple weeks, the moss will die, and you will be able to very carefully pick it off with tweezers. Wait until it has completely turned brown and has dried up. Otherwise, you'll pull off some bark. And you don't want to do that.

Edit: Looking at your photos briefly...looks more like green algae than moss. So possibly do as John stated for sure at first. But...in face you come across moss...Adair's direction is point on.
 

Adair M

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If the moss still an issue after trying what John suggests. (Mellow Mullet) I went back and pulled up @Adair M 's advice. Which is stated below.

You need to start killing the moss back off the bark. It will destroy it if you don't.

Dab white wine vinegar onto the moss on the trunks using Qtips or small cotton balls. Cover the soil surface as you don't want to drip vinegar on the soil.

In a couple weeks, the moss will die, and you will be able to very carefully pick it off with tweezers. Wait until it has completely turned brown and has dried up. Otherwise, you'll pull off some bark. And you don't want to do that.

Edit: Looking at your photos briefly...looks more like green algae than moss. So possibly do as John stated for sure at first. But...in face you come across moss...Adair's direction is point on.
Vinegar kills algae, too.
 

sorce

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As I move into a place with better trees...
This is rapidly becoming a thing that needs prevention. Not Bandaids.

My thing, no matter how or what you use to remove it.....
It always takes nore time to clean it than it would have to prevent it.....

If just having a loose top layer of anything that can be replaced easily and frequently.

It doesn't matter if you clean it....
The fact is, that area of the tree will always have been affected by the algae and scrubbing.

They sell algae deterring moss balls for Fishtanks. Dunno if they work.

But moss around the base of the trunk prevents algae.

The difference for me is algae is a pigment we are trying to Scrub out.

Were moss is on the surface and can be safely removed... (Yeah...you can't let it get that bad!)

ATD.

I am finally getting out of chaos enough to start following schedules other than moving, potting, styling, fert, growing....

Time to move on to the next smaller set of details which is this algae prevention, pest inspection, soil surface inspection..etc...

Next!

Sorce
 

SU2

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Wow I'm glad I got (1) email notification of replies to this thread, that's been the way I know there's new replies and I only got 1 email not 7 (maybe BN changed and doesn't do redundancies like that anymore ie just 1 notification-per-thread if there's fresh stuff?) Anyways ;p

I have algae and moss problems here due to the humidity and rain. I use a toothbrush with just plain water and a stiffer nylon brush that I got at Harbor Freight for the more stubborn stuff. I usually have to do this a couple of times a year.

The bark that is ready to come off usually just comes off with the brushing leaving the good stuff behind.

John

I like this idea insofar as a general 'maintenance' but I guess I was wondering whether or not there's any hope of actually 'solving' the problem, upon further thought I'm starting to have doubts and suspect these rings are permanent :/ I'm just a bit warmer than you and also humid, in fact the humidity here through spring/summer is just insane the air feels 'thick' a lot of the time, I find it so weird how I've got this issue at least at some level on like a third of my trees, most aren't as bad as the pictured tree but a couple are even worse than that one...looks like it's just 'part of the tree' now for better or worse then? The brush idea is great, will have several varieties of bristle length/stiffness/etc with me when going for the re-pot (probably this afternoon, almost done finishing substrate-preparation, smashing lava rock etc) although I'm curious why you'd just use water instead of something like dilute vinegar, dilute hydrogen peroxide, etc? And when doing this I imagine the algae is half-disposed of by rinsing the brush / half just falls into the substrate? So probably smart to flood it afterward? Because I'm doing it during a re-pot I've got the luxury of removing half the substrate that was gonna come out anyways, and really having good access to it - am probably going to put a shirt/bag down over the remaining substrate so I can use dilute hydro.perox., the stuff breaks-down quickly enough that I could use it, wait 20min, then just flood the thing while it's still in its old box/old substrate, then move my cleaned-up tree to its new home! Am still on the fence whether I even want to include some of the perlite from its old box, I like the idea of transferring some of the microbial environment but at the same time there's gotta be algae spores everywhere in that substrate so it's pretty tempting to bare-root/rinse the roots before re-potting, would love your advice on that part!! It's a bougie, has been growing vigorously for the better part of a year since I collected it and is in a strong vegetative stage right now in fact I'm removing lower-leaves on lots of shoots just to let air/light into it, was becoming a bushy mass!

Thanks for the reply, very good to know this is something that, w/ the brush, I can kinda do 'by feel' ("leaving the good stuff behind"!), was fearing that ring was something I had to cure/eliminate for the tree's ultimate survival!! In hindsight, I have been impressed by how long algae is deterred by a simple brushing, I guess a specimen like this one will just necessitate this type of cleaning a few times a year to keep it in-check?
 

SU2

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If the moss still an issue after trying what John suggests. (Mellow Mullet) I went back and pulled up @Adair M 's advice. Which is stated below.

You need to start killing the moss back off the bark. It will destroy it if you don't.

Dab white wine vinegar onto the moss on the trunks using Qtips or small cotton balls. Cover the soil surface as you don't want to drip vinegar on the soil.

In a couple weeks, the moss will die, and you will be able to very carefully pick it off with tweezers. Wait until it has completely turned brown and has dried up. Otherwise, you'll pull off some bark. And you don't want to do that.

Edit: Looking at your photos briefly...looks more like green algae than moss. So possibly do as John stated for sure at first. But...in face you come across moss...Adair's direction is point on.
Yeah there's no moss here just standard green-algae from excessive water/light :/ Using q-tips/cotton-balls to get more peroxide/vinegar (my instinct would be peroxide > vinegar in algae cases, would love to hear others' thoughts! Could always do a round of both for redundancy :D ) onto the bark while doing MM's brushing tech will be of use, thanks for linking/pasting that ;)
 

Adair M

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Some trees make bark that’s tough enough you can scrub with a tooth brush. Some don’t.

Moss and algae are inevitable. The trees are outside in the rain, etc.

One of those dry cleaner spot remover water guns can be very effective. Have to be careful with them, though.
 
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Vinegar kills algae, too.

Do you know which is more effective? I've used both but stopped using vinegar, I didn't find anything out specifically it was just an instinct, it seems like peroxide degrades/breaks-down much quicker than vinegar does which is a really good attribute if doing this to a regular in-pot tree, but since I'll be discarding most of the substrate (maybe even bare-rooting/rinsing to get rid of algae spores), really wouldn't matter if vinegar 'hangs around longer' because I can effectively flood & remove it entirely, I'll be doing this while ~1/3 of the substrate has already been removed (so I've got great access to the whole ring) and am planning to wrap something around the trunk below the algae so not much can get to the roots until flooding-time! May be easier to simply have a tub of water ready and just dunk the bougie in it after cleaning / before putting in its new pot/substrate..hmmm!!
 

SU2

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As it does most things that can't tolerate a mild acid.

Hey, @Adair M, how long does it last before the algae comes back? I might try it this weekend when I do some more repotting instead of just water.

Would love to know whether vinegar or peroxide is better for this! I'm going to use both, doing 2 rounds of cleaning, but that's not a setup that'll let me compare apples-to-apples (ie the first cleaning will obviously remove more, whichever agent I use)

Vinegar kills by acidity, common 5% acetic acid vinegar is 2.4pH, peroxide kills by oxidation if I understand properly - can see a case for using both!
 

GrimLore

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I might try it this weekend when I do some more repotting instead of just water.

I use a bamboo skewer after I rough up the sharp tip a little, also an old toothbrush. I stopped using vinegar not because it was of any harm but the method did not last long requiring a cleanup 2 and sometimes 3 times a season. When it is cleaned off with those two items and water I let it dry for a good 45 minutes in the sun. After that I make a sulfur/water paste, paint it on with a cheap artist brush and let it sit and dry between 15 minutes and 45 minutes - until dry to the touch. I then rinse it with water most times to prevent the whitening depending on the plant. I use the same paste on any branches that are showing green and rinse as well.

I started using this method when removing moss seeing it reappear - it works...

I might add I used it when treating that Tsuki No Shimo Satsuki prior to Daconil for that rust. It is still in great shape :)

Grimmy
 
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As I move into a place with better trees...
Awesome! I can't recall your last location...hope your move went smoothly ;D

As I move into a place with better trees...
This is rapidly becoming a thing that needs prevention. Not Bandaids.

My thing, no matter how or what you use to remove it.....
It always takes nore time to clean it than it would have to prevent it.....

If just having a loose top layer of anything that can be replaced easily and frequently.

It doesn't matter if you clean it....
The fact is, that area of the tree will always have been affected by the algae and scrubbing.
Fully agree with you regarding prevention and not band-aids - my mixes, containers and general care are improving as time passes - but hoping you can clarify/elaborate that last sentence you wrote? Do you mean the algae will always be there, or the signs of it having been there would always be there (ie the scraped-up bark/etc)? Guess I'm trying to discern whether all my trees that are affected, are going to be affected for life..

If just having a loose top layer of anything that can be replaced easily and frequently.
VERY interested in what you mean here but don't really understand it, are you referring to mulching or something? If there's any preventative measures besides better 'general husbandry' (ie if i stop making such rapid-drying mixes that'll take 3x daily waterings in spring! Probably have 20% of my collection in such mixes, perlite-only or perlite+lava-rock...ugh)

But moss around the base of the trunk prevents algae.
Am unable to grow moss, completely given-up. Have tried collected moss (from trees/rocks/etc) and I can keep it alive for a while but never ever get it to grow, have tried every method of propagation I mean I literally had >20 'specimen' in different parts of my garden getting every degree of lighting and watering and have never ever gotten the stuff to grow (I wonder if it's real pH-sensitive? My tap is 8pH...), blows my mind I mean that's why I did the large-scale trials is because I couldn't understand why I couldn't get it to grow, and it still failed. Also tried the 'ground up moss' added to sphagnum during the experiments, so had those in many levels of light/water, all failed :(

I am finally getting out of chaos enough to start following schedules other than moving, potting, styling, fert, growing....

Time to move on to the next smaller set of details which is this algae prevention, pest inspection, soil surface inspection..etc...
What do you look for when inspecting your soil surface? I do this for gaging moisture but can't say I know any other thing to look for on my surface.. Good luck with everything!! :D
 

SU2

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Some trees make bark that’s tough enough you can scrub with a tooth brush. Some don’t.

Moss and algae are inevitable. The trees are outside in the rain, etc.

One of those dry cleaner spot remover water guns can be very effective. Have to be careful with them, though.
Thanks that's good to keep in-mind, bougies do have pretty soft bark especially when wetted and especially when half-eaten by algae! That's basically the crux of why I posted, I suspect that, if I'm to remove the green entirely, I'd basically be at the cambium, so am really unsure just how much to remove when I encounter spots like those pictured in post#1, where the bark is essentially algae'd-through to the cambium....maybe remove the bark in a ring and put a layer of tape over it (joking!)
 

Adair M

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Thanks that's good to keep in-mind, bougies do have pretty soft bark especially when wetted and especially when half-eaten by algae! That's basically the crux of why I posted, I suspect that, if I'm to remove the green entirely, I'd basically be at the cambium, so am really unsure just how much to remove when I encounter spots like those pictured in post#1, where the bark is essentially algae'd-through to the cambium....maybe remove the bark in a ring and put a layer of tape over it (joking!)
In a case like that, dabbing with a Qtip dipped in vinegar will kill the algae. Give it a week or so. It will dry up. Maybe fall off on its own. Maybe it won’t hsve to be “removed” at all.
 

SU2

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In a case like that, dabbing with a Qtip dipped in vinegar will kill the algae. Give it a week or so. It will dry up. Maybe fall off on its own. Maybe it won’t hsve to be “removed” at all.

Interesting, you now have me thinking to delay the re-pot and just see what happens after some agitation w/ vinegar (would you ignore the peroxide altogether? Was thinking that since they kill in different ways- acidity, oxidation- that it'd be smarter to do 2 rounds (do peroxide first and wait half an hour for it to dissipate, then do the vinegar round)...do you think using both is pointless/redundant? I've used both before, using a paint-brush to apply, it always does 'a lot' but never removes it in-full, I've got specimen I thought I'd 'cured' of this many months ago that are getting it again in their new 'algae resistant' (relatively) containers ie re-potted from their crappy perlite setups!


I use a bamboo skewer after I rough up the sharp tip a little, also an old toothbrush. I stopped using vinegar not because it was of any harm but the method did not last long requiring a cleanup 2 and sometimes 3 times a season. When it is cleaned off with those two items and water I let it dry for a good 45 minutes in the sun. After that I make a sulfur/water paste, paint it on with a cheap artist brush and let it sit and dry between 15 minutes and 45 minutes - until dry to the touch. I then rinse it with water most times to prevent the whitening depending on the plant. I use the same paste on any branches that are showing green and rinse as well.

I started using this method when removing moss seeing it reappear - it works...

I might add I used it when treating that Tsuki No Shimo Satsuki prior to Daconil for that rust. It is still in great shape :)

Grimmy

Thanks!!

What kind of sulfur are you using in this paste? I really need to order some lime-sulfur (though that wouldn't be useful here would it? Deadwood only, including exposed heartwood from old trunk-chops, only - right? Am curious how well it'd work against fungi like this- as you say it'd whiten, so wouldn't be on long, but the stuff is quite strong so should be effective...if it bleached the bark you could always just 'half bleach' a stripe above it to fade/blend the discoloration, so long as it wasn't that drastic! I'd happily have bone-white bark w/o this algae lol, am too concerned it could somehow compromise the trees themselves either by eating into the cambium or by over-taking the large deadwood patches of old trunk-chops or grinding sessions...

[btw w/ regards to the daconil, would love to hear your thoughts on when to use that versus imidacloprid? I've got both and barely use them (only when a plant has tons of aphids repeatedly or something) but it's really lack of knowing which is better and when!! Want to do a massive pre-treatment/preventative application soon, as the growth season is just starting and its appeal as an insurance against pests is huge!!]
 

SU2

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You can dilute the lime sulfur with water, 1:10, and spray it on. Lime sulfur is a funcicide and algaecide.
How would you rank these (dilute l.sulfur, peroxide, vinegar) though? I'm happy to do my '2-pronged' idea (peroxide then vinegar) this time but, in my incredibly wet/humid area, want to be far more proactive here (would like to have a bottle & brush I can always apply with so I can do it w/o any hassle, have heard other users who keep (diluted)hydrogen peroxide on-hand in their garden for this)

Kinda worried I won't be able to ever eradicate it fully, at least from the worst-afflicted specimen, so figure I'll just have to stay on-top of keeping it back. Hydrogen peroxide's greatest appeal to me is that it seems a short while after application it's broken-down and become inert, for instance w/ vinegar I don't know if there's any negative residuals after it's dried, would you be flushing the substrate after doing this? I'm not thinking about it dripping-down into the substrate during application I'm thinking about the residue left afterward (that'll get wet/drain-downward the first time it's hosed/rained-on), I'm pretty sure peroxide doesn't leave anything but don't know that about vinegar..
 

Gsquared

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The peroxide and vinegar treatment makes me nervous. I think they could potentially wash into the soil and mess w the ph. The safe way I learned to get rid of algae is a spray bottle of rubbing alcohol. When I lived in a San Francisco, the algae problem was constant because of the fog. Everyone in BSSF used rubbing alcohol, myself included. Just spray it on. Safe on foliage, bark, pots, you name it. I didn't grow Bougainvillia, but it worked on pine, maples, junipers and the other usually suspects.

When alcohol dries it disrupts and breaks the cell wall of the algae ( does the same to bacteria, hence why we use it as a disinfectant.) and kills it. A few days later, poof, algae is gone. Sometimes a white ghost of any algae growing on the outside of pots, but otherwise it worked like a charm and had no discernible drawbacks.

Test it out first if you are nervous, but I would buy the big bottle and attach a sprayer and do it about every 3 months.
 
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