Reactions to the First Artisans Cup

[Cadillactaste]

His show...his take on what he thought would give it a different feel...though the entire "American Bonsai" term I think is being over chewed...because isn't the next Artisan Cup in another country...so, are we really trying to focus on American bonsai? Or will that location focus on their nationality and find another twist?

Each ones take can be a bit different when it comes to ones term "American Bonsai". Sure I think Asian feel when I think of scrolls. But then as do I to a degree with bonsai. So we use native trees...one could venture the aspect of an American feel art on a scroll. Which also has been discussed to some degree in the past.

In all honesty, one could take many aspects to such a title as American Bonsai. I'm not sure at this point if there is a right or wrong in ones perceptive of how they see it. I am not saying it's wrong to wish to find this "American Bonsai"...but, if we are embracing bonsai to me...I think we are to a degree embracing the entire whole. To say otherwise is only fooling ourselves. For...bonsai is a tree in a pot the rest that go with it are just icing on the cake. But, to me...I like the time old tradition of the scrolls and accent plantings. Because it represents a history that continues to tell a story.

 

[William N. Valavanis]

The American Bonsai Society together with Jack Douthitt sponsor an "All American Award" at the US National Bonsai Exhibitions. The winner must be a native North American species in an American container on an American display table. The companion planting usually is also native to the bonsai. In the 2014 exhibition. Paul Pickel won with his beautiful collected Buttonwood, which by the way, was also displayed in the Artisians Cup Exhibition.
We hope to see many more entries in the upcoming 2106 5th US National Bonsai Echibition on September 10-11, 2016, in Rochester, NY.

 

[Vin]

The American Bonsai Society together with Jack Douthitt sponsor an "All American Award" at the US National Bonsai Exhibitions. The winner must be a native North American species in an American container on an American display table. The companion planting usually is also native to the bonsai. In the 2014 exhibition. Paul Pickel won with his beautiful collected Buttonwood, which by the way, was also displayed in the Artisians Cup Exhibition.
We hope to see many more entries in the upcoming 2106 5th US National Bonsai Echibition on September 10-11, 2016, in Rochester, NY.

Hear! Hear!

 

[A Random User]

Ok... now I am hearing from other folks who attended the Panel Discussions that say quite the opposite is true. That there wasn't anything said regarding "scrolls" at all. So, either someone thought they heard something, or thought they didn't here something... (if that's even possible? )

 

[crust]

My take on the scroll thing is that a super dynamic display mode was chose early on and that scrolls could have not been included without simply goofing up the scenario. Personally I was relieved that scrolls were not included. There use really defines a display as Japanese--even when the scroll is not. Then there is all the Japanese traditions on scroll display etiquette. I would love to have a Sawgrass scroll but I would put it on my wall.
I thought the panels discussions thoughts on even dis-including stands was interesting--mentioning how many where of traditional Japanese style and going on to say we are not ready to abandon that yet. There were a lot of very different, more organic stands in the show also. The Robinson dead-wood stand kind of melted into the dark of the display but it was pretty cool.

 

[thumblessprimate1]

My take on the scroll thing is that a super dynamic display mode was chose early on and that scrolls could have not been included without simply goofing up the scenario. Personally I was relieved that scrolls were not included. There use really defines a display as Japanese--even when the scroll is not. Then there is all the Japanese traditions on scroll display etiquette. I would love to have a Sawgrass scroll but I would put it on my wall.
I thought the panels discussions thoughts on even dis-including stands was interesting--mentioning how many where of traditional Japanese style and going on to say we are not ready to abandon that yet. There were a lot of very different, more organic stands in the show also. The Robinson dead-wood stand kind of melted into the dark of the display but it was pretty cool.

I like that explanation; makes more sense to an ignoramus like myself.

 

[A Random User]

My take on the scroll thing is that a super dynamic display mode was chose early on and that scrolls could have not been included without simply goofing up the scenario. Personally I was relieved that scrolls were not included. There use really defines a display as Japanese--even when the scroll is not. Then there is all the Japanese traditions on scroll display etiquette. I would love to have a Sawgrass scroll but I would put it on my wall.
I thought the panels discussions thoughts on even dis-including stands was interesting--mentioning how many where of traditional Japanese style and going on to say we are not ready to abandon that yet. There were a lot of very different, more organic stands in the show also. The Robinson dead-wood stand kind of melted into the dark of the display but it was pretty cool.

My take on this is the same as well. I don't think one needs to use a scroll when displaying... and I understand the display they were going for, and I appreciate it.
My only beef was the use of scrolls being somehow not American, which seems to of now either happened or not.

 

[Chicago_Willows]

My take on American Bonsai is that it is not definable. America is a collection of peoples from around the world. As Bill Murray said in Stripes; "...our forefathers were kicked out of every decent country in the world. We are the wretched refuse. We’re the underdog. We’re mutts!". So why can't American Bonsai be a reflection of that? It should be collections of trees from all over the world, styled by artists and accented however they see fit. It is and should be about the artist and the tree and how that artist wants to present that tree is personal. This may be influenced by region, who the artist studied under or by some nationalistic fervor, but to claim it as American is painting with the broadest of brushes and bound to ruffle some feathers. There should be enough room for all going forward and hopefully Ryan's show has helped people rethink how we present our trees to the public. But I think we also have to not get hung up on definitions and rules unless you want to start your own movement.

American Bonsai doesn't have to be just great old weathered junipers from inhospitable places. In fact when I see some of these huge, ribboned, dead wood trees, I'm reminded more of Jeremiah Johnson and the Donner Party than of most of our American pioneers who just wanted to settle in fertile lands and escape persecution from wherever they came from. The high altitude Yamadori are dramatic and amazing trees, but it doesn't seem very accessible to the majority of people in this or any country. By trying to define and claim one is pioneering a movement, you should be ready for some flak. That's why threads like this are a good thing. It keeps people in check and helps shape the future of "the movement".

To the point about extreme American Bonsai, I would add it would not only have to be American species in an American pot, on an American stand and with an American accent plant but should also have to be styled by a Native American. Thus showing how ridiculous trying to define this so called American Bonsai is.

Speaking of movements, I'm starting one based on Arctic Blue Willows. It's MY American Bonsai. Like most Americans, this species is not native to America but like many Americans, found a nice home along a gentle river or creek and threw down some roots. I plan on growing my willows for many years to come. Like our pioneering ancestors, I may lose some branches along the way but as long as the river flows, the chances for life are great.

 

[coh]

Chicago Willows, that is quite similar to what I was thinking about this topic after signing off last night. I think about how bonsai display has evolved in Japan...Japan being a small country with a long history, fairly homogeneous (I think). So the styling and display of bonsai has evolved closely with that culture, everything has meaning in terms of that culture. Things that most of us will never fully understand and appreciate.

In contrast, the US is, as you noted, a smorgasbord of different people and different cultures. Most can't relate to the subtleties of bonsai display, and I think if we insist on displaying bonsai in the "Japanese format" only, bonsai will remain a small niche. If we break out of that mold a bit, bringing the trees to different venues using different formats, maybe more people will become interested.

That's not to say "do away with the standard/classical display model or show", but rather be willing to push the envelope and change things up a bit. It sounds like the AC has done that, so good for them!

Chris

 

[MACH5]

Ultimately do what you love but do it with passion and conviction. The rest will follow.

 

[Cadillactaste]

I agree Chris...but, some no matter what the icing around the tree. Will see it as it originated from. I'm sure there will be ones who don't know bonsai...wouldn't know an American pot from a Japanese one. Nor would some even understand the meaning of using a native tree to America. I see no fault in wanting to up the anti to stand out...as long as we can also grasp it will always have ties to its heritage. That will never be taken from it.

I am interested in seeing the professional photos of the A-cup...though. Because the play on shadows was intriguing...but, then there are things hidden in in shadows I wish I could see. Nebari and such in the photos I couldn't make out. I am thinking a professional photographer could capture what was visible to the naked eye there when it was open for those choosing to view it. That doesn't come across in unprofessional photos. Doesn't make it wrong in how it was displayed. I'm all for rolling to the beat of ones own drum. Those who chose to participate also knew these guidelines and were fine with them. Embraced them...we can put our twist on American Bonsai...but as long as bonsai is in the midst then, it's history will always run through the veins of the tree.

 

[M. Frary]

I'm thinking a red,white and blue pot with a Winchester poster for a scroll would say American bonsai.

 

[quietobserver]

I'm thinking a red,white and blue pot with a Winchester poster for a scroll would say American bonsai.

I'd go with a literati twisting its way around a Mossberg 12gauge.

Ponderosa pine would do nicely.

 

[thumblessprimate1]

In contrast, the US is, as you noted, a smorgasbord of different people and different cultures. Most can't relate to the subtleties of bonsai display, and I think if we insist on displaying bonsai in the "Japanese format" only, bonsai will remain a small niche. If we break out of that mold a bit, bringing the trees to different venues using different formats, maybe more people will become interested.

That's not to say "do away with the standard/classical display model or show", but rather be willing to push the envelope and change things up a bit. It sounds like the AC has done that, so good for them!

Chris

There is a lot to read that perhaps I missed something, but I don't recall anyone insisting that we ought to only have a Japanese display. I'm with Sawgrass, post #67.

My take on this is the same as well. I don't think one needs to use a scroll when displaying... and I understand the display they were going for, and I appreciate it.
My only beef was the use of scrolls being somehow not American, which seems to of now either happened or not.

 

[coh]

Well, one of our own members has this:

http://www.bonsainut.com/index.php?threads/its-winter-trim-n-wire-larch-time.10384/

I guess instead of a cheeseburger accent piece, one could use a handgun. Or maybe both.

 

[DougB]

If an American tree species is OK, and an American stand made by an American with American wood is OK, and an American species companion plant is OK, and a pot made by an American with American clay and glazes is OK, then why is a painting/scroll made by an American with American paint on an American backing of an American theme NOT OK???????????

just asking because I don't understand the difference

 

[Vin]

I'm thinking a red,white and blue pot with a Winchester poster for a scroll would say American bonsai.

How's this for American Bonsai? I'm going to modify one of these and use it as a Cascade Pot:

 

[fourteener]

Good luck defining American Bonsai. I think the best definition is always going to be a bit like, "I can do what I want." We are a pioneer people, all of our ancestors left tradition to come here.(most)

 

[A Random User]

I think quite a few of the recent previous post have hit this subject on the head...

I have stated that I think what Ryan did was awesome, and I am very thankful he did it...

It is appearing more and more as I have been informed of what was actually said at the event and the panels discussions, that in all actuality it was more of a questioning of where our place was and by what terms should we as Americans move forward with our displays and presentations of our trees and our art.

I have been told by quite a few folks with no cares or dogs in any of the fight, that the panel's discussion in all actuality encompassed everything in what would be considered traditional display and questioned their relevance in how we as Americans might move forward... this seems to be not quite the leap of how scrolls are not some how "American", as was originally suggested and was proposed here at the Nut, and I guess should be expected...

In this new light... I think this is a positive thing. I think it is our job as artist to question who we are and what type of roll we and what we are doing, plays in the overall scene of the bonsai community.

To question the role of scrolls, stands, accent plants, etc, I thing is a legitimate one... as it pertains to the scrolls themselves, it appears to have been more regarding the use of Kanji, and Asian themes, which I get... however, this opens up a whole slew of other debatable things like all the Japanese pots everyone is so in love with, as well as stand and their traditional design and construction. Not to mention to whole concept of a traditional presentation and it's formalities...

So, the question then is America and the people of America willing to make this jump? The only scrolls and paintings from my end, that ever sold well, we're Asian inspired. The pots as mentioned, flying off the shelf are Japanese, the stands, our displays, even the design of our trees and those of the Cup are styled in the Japanese fashion... this is who everyone always refers to when one debates and all of those who hosted and spoke at the event, studied where?

I think we need our own identity, and I think it is good to question... However, I think we are so far from wanting to separate and cut ties from where this art form originated from. Are we really going to some day look down upon Japanese design as we do Mallsai and be thankful we don't do as they do, and our glad we are doing our own thing? At least not anytime soon I assume...

 

[rockm]

I think this actually made sense. Scrolls are not something American.

Neither are scrolls Japanese. In fact, most of bonsai was borrowed from the Chinese. The Japanese made it their own, with their own spin.

Simply discarding something because it's "Not something American" would kinda disqualify the entire art/practice of bonsai, wouldn't it? This argument makes absolutely no sense.

I have a feeling that its more 'I don't really care' about scrolls. Which is fine, but some of us see a distinctly Western path that includes scrolls, okimono, etc.