Question on Ebihara Technique w/ Younger Trees

[Apex37]

So I have mostly younger tress around 1" in trunk size. The few I was thinking of trying the Ebihara technique on, but I was wondering if it may be better to wait till they are larger in trunk size or if that matters?

My main concern was I know most videos and the threads on here recommend drilling a screw into the tree from the bottom of the board, but that obviously wouldn't work with trees so small without worry of splitting the tree. The alternative thought would be to drill out some holes in the board and run wire through it and tie down the tree to the board somehow.

Any thoughts?
All of these will be going into an Anderson flat either way.

 

[Adair M]

I once did it with a small tree, as big around at the base as your little finger. I first drilled out a hole in the bottom of the trunk to make room for the screw. I still managed to split the trunk a little when I screwed it to the board. But, I packed the area with spaghnum moss, spread out the roots and buried it. When I dug it up the next years, it had healed over, and the split wasn’t there, and if anything, it helped widen the nebari!

 

[Eckhoffw]

Wire would work. I’ve attached small trees to a board/tile before by using a thin board with a small screw. I pre drilled a small pilot hole into the trunk first then lined up the screw through board.

 

[Eckhoffw]

I once did it with a small tree, as big around at the base as your little finger. I first drilled out a hole in the bottom of the trunk to make room for the screw. I still managed to split the trunk a little when I screwed it to the board. But, I packed the area with spaghnum moss, spread out the roots and buried it. When I dug it up the next years, it had healed over, and the split wasn’t there, and if anything, it helped widen the nebari!

Haha! Beat me to it.

 

[dbonsaiw]

I don't know my aspen from my elbow when it comes to Ebihara technique, but I have nailed a similar sized tree to a board. I drilled a hole in the board and placed the nail through a washer, leaving me only a little bit of hammering into the trunk. You can use a very thin nail. I then used wire to fix the board to the box. A tornado couldn't move this guy off the board.

 

[Canada Bonsai]

The few I was thinking of trying the Ebihara technique on, but I was wondering if it may be better to wait till they are larger in trunk size or if that matters?

My main concern was I know most videos and the threads on here recommend drilling a screw into the tree from the bottom of the board

You don't need to use a screw or a board to get the tree going in the right direction. I put my Acer palmatum cuttings on a plastic disk (the bottom of a pot) from day 1. No regrets:

Canada Bonsai on Instagram: "There are lots of messages coming in about this 'IG story' so I thought I'd post it and explain: These are the 'Deshojo' cuttings I was offering last spring. This tree spent the last year tied to the black disk (a remov

235 likes, 6 comments - canadabonsai on February 13, 2022: "There are lots of messages coming in about this 'IG story' so I thought I'd post it and explain: These are the 'Deshojo' cuttings I was offering last spring. This tree spent the last year tied to the black disk (a removed bottom of a...

www.instagram.com

These trees are ready for the 'ebihara technique' if ever/whenever I decide to make that transition. They're also good for just about any other style with the appropriate interventions.

 

[dbonsaiw]

Getting your roots growing radially as early as possible is probably a good move. As Canada Bonsai points out, you can use the floor of your grow box as the board - if the roots can't grow down they will have nowhere to grow but radially. The Ebihara technique actually does more than just radiate the roots - I believe he also places a barrier around each root so they get pruned and ramify when too large.

 

[Ohmy222]

I use a few tricks.... for really small seedling types I put them on a small rock and call it a day. When I say rock I mean real small one out of a gravel bed or something. For ones like you are talking about I cut a square of vinyl that I buy in large sheets at home depot and just wire the tree down like you would securing in a pot. You can use pins to spread out the roots. Really easy. You can cut with a razor and holds up a couple years. I use that up to about 6-8 inches or so. For bigger I use a board that is stained to lessen the rot but you could probably still do the vinyl. I do this with everything I grow even if I am not necessarily going for the pancake nebari. Below is what I believe I buy.

Coroplast 48 in. x 96 in. x 0.157 in. (4mm) White Corrugated Twinwall Plastic Sheet CP4896S - The Home Depot

Lightweight, weather resistant and moisture resistant. Offering a wide range of possible uses around the home, workshop and job site. Common uses include floor coverings, countertops and wall protection,

www.homedepot.com

 

[Canada Bonsai]

As Canada Bonsai points out, you can use the floor of your grow box as the board

I did not say this, and I do not recommend it.

In my experience, once the roots reach the end of the disk or board, it is important for them to be able to grown downward. Yes, they will hook downward like a claw, but I make sure that perimeter of the disk/board is where I intend to prune-back the roots anyways. This is especially important when trying to add substantial mass to the trunk and roots, although it gradually becomes less important in later stages until eventually no board at all is required.

The text accompanying the video I shared describes exactly what I do, and at there bottom right you can see it. I attached a screenshot for your conveniece. It is the bottom of a plastic pot, placed onto a significant amount substrate. I have found this to be a good use for my endless supply of cracked plastic pots.

I believe he also places a barrier around each root so they get pruned and ramify when too large

Ebihara used nails and chopsticks to organize the roots and create undulations. The idea of using crossing nails or staples to 'choke' the roots and force them to ramify was an elaboration added by Andre Meriggioli in Bonsai Maples (see attached).

 

[BonsaiMatt]

Very doable, these are 2 year old Trident Maple seedlings:

 

[dbonsaiw]

I did not say this, and I do not recommend it.

In my experience, once the roots reach the end of the disk or board, it is important for them to be able to grown downward.

Apologies for putting words in your mouth.

A question I have had is whether roots need to grow downwards or simply just need to grow. What if the tree was planted really shallow but the box was wide enough to allow the roots to run?

 

[GreatLakesBrad]

Seeing some results from Ebihara type growing after 2 years on this JM.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Likewise.…@Brad in GR @BonsaiMatt

Here’s a thread we are doing demonstrating this exact same issue using multiple small maples cherries and elms as examples.

Screws in trunks and wire root hold downs are very doable. One just has to get the technique down.

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/rookies-sorting-out-roots-ebihara-don’t-look.48769/

cheers
DSD sends

 

[Ming dynasty]

You don't need to use a screw or a board to get the tree going in the right direction. I put my Acer palmatum cuttings on a plastic disk (the bottom of a pot) from day 1. No regrets:

Canada Bonsai on Instagram: "There are lots of messages coming in about this 'IG story' so I thought I'd post it and explain: These are the 'Deshojo' cuttings I was offering last spring. This tree spent the last year tied to the black disk (a remov

235 likes, 6 comments - canadabonsai on February 13, 2022: "There are lots of messages coming in about this 'IG story' so I thought I'd post it and explain: These are the 'Deshojo' cuttings I was offering last spring. This tree spent the last year tied to the black disk (a removed bottom of a...

www.instagram.com

These trees are ready for the 'ebihara technique' if ever/whenever I decide to make that transition. They're also good for just about any other style with the appropriate interventions.

If root base is at bottom pot, do you do anything to keep trunk dry from substrates or this is not a problem?

 

[jradics]

I use a few tricks.... for really small seedling types I put them on a small rock and call it a day. When I say rock I mean real small one out of a gravel bed or something. For ones like you are talking about I cut a square of vinyl that I buy in large sheets at home depot and just wire the tree down like you would securing in a pot. You can use pins to spread out the roots. Really easy. You can cut with a razor and holds up a couple years. I use that up to about 6-8 inches or so. For bigger I use a board that is stained to lessen the rot but you could probably still do the vinyl. I do this with everything I grow even if I am not necessarily going for the pancake nebari. Below is what I believe I buy.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Coropla...-Corrugated-Plastic-Sheet-CP4896S/205351385[/

http://

 

[jradics]

coroplast. corregated plastic. that's the stuff that politicians and shady businesses use for signs that pop up on road sides. there are always some laying around on busy intersections. clean up some trash and get free stuff

 

[Shibui]

If root base is at bottom pot, do you do anything to keep trunk dry from substrates or this is not a problem?

There's usually no problem with the trunk buried except that many species will sprout new roots just under surface level making all the work you did on flat roots at the base of the tray completely redundant. I found this is especially a problem with trident maples so now I plant the root base I want to keep and enhance no deeper than 2cm.

In my experience, once the roots reach the end of the disk or board, it is important for them to be able to grown downward. Yes, they will hook downward like a claw, but I make sure that perimeter of the disk/board is where I intend to prune-back the roots anyways. This is especially important when trying to add substantial mass to the trunk and roots, although it gradually becomes less important in later stages until eventually no board at all is required.

Agrees with my experiences down here too though I now skip the boards and just use root pruning to develop the flat nebari. After roots are established and been pruned a couple of times they don't seem to keep developing deeper roots.

 

[It's Kev]

i just follow this method with all my tees as long as the root system allows it.
even the smallest of my trees as strapped to a piece if a tile, or a drip tray that i've cut smaller, one or 2 are even screwed to a bottle cap

it creates a much more pleasing shape for all trees, except olive and rosemary, they don't really do well with any kind of exposed root style.

 

[AlexJordan]

The Ebihara technique can be used on younger trees, but it's important to make sure that the tree is mature enough to handle the stress of the technique. Generally, it's recommended to wait until the tree has a trunk diameter of at least 2 inches before attempting the technique.

 

[Cajunrider]

The Ebihara technique can be used on younger trees, but it's important to make sure that the tree is mature enough to handle the stress of the technique. Generally, it's recommended to wait until the tree has a trunk diameter of at least 2 inches before attempting the technique.

Is that really true? I'm sure the members here have done a lot of trees way smaller than 2".