Progression - Juniperus c. 'Wintergreen'

[Walter Pall]

The rock is PERFECT in size. The whole setting looks like a great distant mountain scene.

 

[Rick Moquin]

I wouldn't be too hasty in finding the right pot for now, many good suggestions have been offered and many more will suface as time goes by.

As stated the tree is still in it's nursery can and may hold a few surprises. The work done to this tree at this point is coming along quite nicely so why rush it. The basic silhouette is established and now it's time to work with the nebari. The tree will reveal what needs to be done come spring, whether it can go (doubtful) in a final pot or a training pot for a few years while working the nebari and reducing the root mass.

From a personal stand point this is why I prefer to bare root everything I bring home then, I know the challenges that lie ahead and therefore I can plan accordingly.

 

[Redwing]

I wouldn't be too hasty in finding the right pot for now, many good suggestions have been offered and many more will suface as time goes by.

As stated the tree is still in it's nursery can and may hold a few surprises. The work done to this tree at this point is coming along quite nicely so why rush it. The basic silhouette is established and now it's time to work with the nebari. The tree will reveal what needs to be done come spring, whether it can go (doubtful) in a final pot or a training pot for a few years while working the nebari and reducing the root mass.

From a personal stand point this is why I prefer to bare root everything I bring home then, I know the challenges that lie ahead and therefore I can plan accordingly.

Rick,

Generally excellent advice --- and then I hit the last paragraph. Surely you're not advocating that anyone bare-root their conifers?

-rw

 

[Bonsai Nut]

The rock is PERFECT in size. The whole setting looks like a great distant mountain scene.

I hate when Walter disagrees with me So I went back and took a look at the tree and the rock, and then created a virtual for what I thought the scale should be in my mind:

To me, it looks more balanced between tree and rock. However I agree with Walter in that you lose much of the sense of scale and depth. It also makes the tree look younger to me, and you lose the sense of the mountain top. I think maybe my eye is playing tricks on me and thinking of the rock like a scoop pot? Regardless, going back I like the original composition better. I don't mind posting my mistakes if it helps me avoid making them again

 

[Walter Pall]

The suggested combination reminds me much of this ezo spruce of mine. it was a mediocre bonsai before I planted it right in the middle of this (too long) rock. And since then it is winning prices left and right. Many say that it is the most impressive bonsai in my collection. Well, it is only the combination tree and rock. And I planted it right in to the middle on purpose. The stone could be even longer according to my taste.

 

[Rick Moquin]

Rick,

Generally excellent advice --- and then I hit the last paragraph. Surely you're not advocating that anyone bare-root their conifers?

-rw

rw

Yes I do and with great success. My personal opinion is far too many folks are afraid to bare root their trees. I use a garden hose on spray, not much damage is occurring there and, I do not want any old soil present along with my substrate. This soil is usually found under the main trunk, which leads to excessive moisture in that area, so I get rid of it. My substrate is inoculated with "Myke" which is michorizae in a powdered form.

The one exception is a maple I planted out in the ground because it was acquired late in the season. I decided to let it grow out the following year. The result: roots growing at three different levels which pushed back going into a pot by 2 years (time spent in ground) + another 2-3 three to tame/prune the remaining roots to fit it in it's final pot. .

 

[Redwing]

Rick,

Alright, glad it works for you. But it's certainly a minority opinion. I mean, I've bare-rooted maples in August with great success too --- but that doesn't make it exactly a recommended practice.

I'd strongly advice people to bare-root no more than half of the root ball on a conifer when repotting. The other half should be only lightly combed out, and the soil on that half can (and should) be replaced at the next repotting if it is still dirt/clay.

You've touched on part of the reason -- mycorrhizae. While innoculating might work, I prefer not to entirely remove a good thing. But more generally, conifers seem not to enjoy being bare-rooted and while you might get away with it with one species, it can come back and bite you with another.

Cheers,
rw

 

[Victrinia Ensor]

I don't know who took this picture, who owns the bonsai, or where I got this image originally, but I think your slab has similar possibilities so I post for inspiration only. If anyone can fill in the details please do. I had it labeled as Hinoki Cypress.

If you image search for "Kimura bonsai" it's one of the first tree images to pop up. I don't know who took the image, but it's the work of Masahiko Kimura.

Kindest regards,

Victrinia

 

[Victrinia Ensor]

BonsaiRic...

What a delightful surprise... I have to confess that I was not overly interested in what was going on with the tree to begin with... I don't generally style trees to look like their juvenile forms. But with that rock slab, I have to confess that I will eagerly await the final pairing. Not because the tree got more interesting, but rather there's a story that intrigues me, because it's one I am very familiar with. I have to throw out there that you would be better off to develop the apex with wire and let it get some interesting undulating movement... then kill it all and have a fanstastic dead snag for at least the upper 25% of the tree. THAT would be a perfect story then... One in which I could happily lose myself in contemplation....

The photo of the snag top I'm posting is one that could be an inspiration photo for you... Mind you... I believe that kind of movement should be incorporated all over the tree.. but that's just me.

Kindest regards,

Victrinia

 

[BonsaiRic]

The rock is PERFECT in size. The whole setting looks like a great distant mountain scene.

Thanks Walter for your insight as you stated what I am attempting to create.

 

[BonsaiRic]

I wouldn't be too hasty in finding the right pot for now, many good suggestions have been offered and many more will suface as time goes by.

As stated the tree is still in it's nursery can and may hold a few surprises. The work done to this tree at this point is coming along quite nicely so why rush it. The basic silhouette is established and now it's time to work with the nebari. The tree will reveal what needs to be done come spring, whether it can go (doubtful) in a final pot or a training pot for a few years while working the nebari and reducing the root mass.

From a personal stand point this is why I prefer to bare root everything I bring home then, I know the challenges that lie ahead and therefore I can plan accordingly.

Rick, you touched on my BIGGEST concern and that is ...what will lie beneath the nebari? I did pot this Juniper up one pot size when I first purchased it to provide a slight stimulus for the roots. It was somewhat rootbound then. I checked around and slightly below the nebari at that time but no way of knowing yet what kind of root tangle may lie below the nebari.

I am taking your thoughts very seriously to not rush the root reduction. It may take several years to reduce the root pad to fit this rock OR an acceptable pot.

In the past I've done what you said and bare rooted some of my junipers without any ill affects. However I've learned not to reduce roots too radically all at once and kill the tree.

Thanks

 

[BonsaiRic]

BonsaiRic...

What a delightful surprise... I have to confess that I was not overly interested in what was going on with the tree to begin with... I don't generally style trees to look like their juvenile forms. But with that rock slab, I have to confess that I will eagerly await the final pairing. Not because the tree got more interesting, but rather there's a story that intrigues me, because it's one I am very familiar with. I have to throw out there that you would be better off to develop the apex with wire and let it get some interesting undulating movement... then kill it all and have a fanstastic dead snag for at least the upper 25% of the tree. THAT would be a perfect story then... One in which I could happily lose myself in contemplation....

The photo of the snag top I'm posting is one that could be an inspiration photo for you... Mind you... I believe that kind of movement should be incorporated all over the tree.. but that's just me.

Kindest regards,

Victrinia

Thanks Vic!

Definitely gives me more to consider with the deadwood on top. Fortunately I could do the deadwood work later, after repotting is overcome and enough time is taken for contemplation .

I've avoided a jin or snag on top so far because of the many trees that must be jinned because the top is too massive to provide gentle enough taper. I was able to accomplish the gentle taper since I could pull up a side branch straight enough so that the trunk line didn't look too contrived. Walter's Ezo spruce gives me inspiration as I see an example of a great tree without a top jin.

A top jin or branched (twisted) snag would certainly provide more drama and appearance of age to the "story".

More to consider through our long Ohio winter.

 

[Rick Moquin]

Rick,

Alright, glad it works for you. But it's certainly a minority opinion. I mean, I've bare-rooted maples in August with great success too --- but that doesn't make it exactly a recommended practice.

I'd strongly advice people to bare-root no more than half of the root ball on a conifer when repotting. The other half should be only lightly combed out, and the soil on that half can (and should) be replaced at the next repotting if it is still dirt/clay.

You've touched on part of the reason -- mycorrhizae. While innoculating might work, I prefer not to entirely remove a good thing. But more generally, conifers seem not to enjoy being bare-rooted and while you might get away with it with one species, it can come back and bite you with another.

Cheers,
rw

I think Walter may disagree with you and that is where I have developed my practice from. Bare rooting a maple in August is what I deem "late in the season", the maple I planted out was end July. All my acquisitions are conducted before the end of June. In my locale anything purchased before the end of June gets the treatment and all have done well.

There might be a caveat here, reading your post. When I say I bare root all my trees, pines, junipers, cypress, boxwood, cotoneasters, maples etc... I merely allow the hose to do the job, I do not rake them out, if I have to untangle I use a chop stick gingerly teasing them out vice a root rake. I think when folks run into problems IMO is when not only do they rake them out (which causes damage) but reduce the root mass at the same time to fit the tree in X pot, this is where I believe they run into trouble. The other thing that I am attentive to is during the whole process the roots are always kept moist. This includes but not limited to keeping the tree in water when I do my repotting to ensure the roots will remain moist, this does not harm the tree.

I must also add that this is only conducted on healthy trees, trees where the health is questionable are either not purchased or get planted out until vigorous enough to permit work or have developed sufficiently for work to commence.

The other thing that is conducted during any repotting is a dose of 10-52-10 which is also known as transplant fertilizer. Buying "transplant fertilizer" is expensive, transplant fertilizer is 10-52-10, so why not use 10-52-10 at a fraction of the cost. They get a dose at 1/2 strength on repotting and a dose at full strength 2 weeks later. I always have 10-52-10 on hand as it is part of my feeding regime I employ.

Some trees that should not have done on them in spring are spruces and mugos, they prefer mid-to late August on recommendations from experienced folks on the various boards and that has paid dividends as well.

Should every one carry out this practice? Maybe not, but only because there may be other factors involved.

 

[BonsaiRic]

I repotted this tree last spring from the nursery pot to a smaller wooden grow box and the root zone was amazingly compact and shallow and not badly tangled. I did not have to remove many roots at all to put the tree into the grow box for this summer. I may be able to plant it into a pot or on the rock next spring without much disturbance. A few pics after a slight thinning of foliage and a light rewiring. The second pic is a virt showing fuller foliage pads.

 

[catfish chapstick]

i like it. its definately coming alone in a good way

 

[Zournathan]

This tree looks great! And thanks for posting the link to that online book on artistic foundations, it was very informative.

 

[jk_lewis]

That's a well-known Kimura creation. Photo probably copyright.

 

[BonsaiRic]

I repotted this Juniper onto the rock today.

I didn't have to remove any live roots to get the tree into position! I did remove a few dead roots and old growing media that had decayed into black goo.

The first pic is the originally planned "front" of tree and rock. However, after planting the tree onto the rock, I also like the "back" (second pic) as much if not better than the "front". There is a better root flare on the "back" of the tree.

The close-up pics show extra rocks (red arrows) I added to the top of the growing media which adds more of a natural feel to the composition as if the tree is actually growing on a mountain ledge. (1st pic original front and 2nd pic is the back.) I'm not sure yet whether I'll leave the added rocks to show the tree. If I do leave the extra rocks I'll plant moss in the gaps.

I also am pondering adding a few tiny perennial plants further out from the tree so the scene is not quite as stark. "Tiny" perennials with small foliage/flowers so that the proper scale is preserved.

 

[Bill S]

Well I'd say the gauntlet was thrown down.

Tree looks good too.

 

[october]

This is a vert nice composition. I think I agree with you about liking the back better than the front. The tree seems to have better form from the back.