Pro Nana Literati progression

[Eric Group]

I got this tree about a year and half ago I guess. Fall of 2013 I think. It was one of a group of trees given to me by a friend who wanted to thin his collection a bit, and I am forever grateful he chose me to give the trees to! This is a cool old Pro Nana that was pretty happy when I got it, but was not growing real fast and needed a repot. Sorry for some of the crappy pics, but my iphone camera was crap, and thee lens was dirty... and... Well I got a new camera now so the new pics are better!
Crappy pics of the tree right before repot:




Rootball all compacted and stuff prior to repot:


and a little better pics after repot:



You might be able to tell it was tilted back a bit and planted at slightly different angle. This is after I let it grow for a while to regain some vigor- note the bright green foliage, lengthy new growth... A happier tree overall, ready for a restyle now! This was back in the summer before the fall and winter- obviously not a lot of new growth was put on over the dormant period.

 

[Smoke]

What a great trunk. Nice movement all the way up. Great potential for a restyle. Eager to see what you do with it.

 

[Eric Group]

So, today I slapped some wire on it, pruned back a lot of that lengthy new growth, and took some better pics with the new camera.. I think it is moving forward nicely! Next I will work on the Jins again- shorten a few, get some lime sulfur on them.. I think I am going to create a new on on the front left branch as well..


Some detail shots...

Bottom left of this one is the branch I am thinking of making a new Jin out of...

Apex:

Needs a little filling in, and I will probably have to wire the apex again once it does, but I like where it is now. I like making these for my own reference, but please let me know what you think!

 

[KennedyMarx]

Looks great. I can't decide if I like the current front or the back side better. I like your idea of more Jin. On the current front think about reducing or jinning that entire left first branch then letting the right first branch grow out and fill in as a drop branch. Just an idea.

 

[Eric Group]

Looks great. I can't decide if I like the current front or the back side better. I like your idea of more Jin. On the current front think about reducing or jinning that entire left first branch then letting the right first branch grow out and fill in as a drop branch. Just an idea.

Thanks, yeah that is pretty much the plan with those two branches... Except that the right branch- though hard to tell from the pics- is... "complicated". IT is basically tied back on itself in a knot and I couldn't really drop it like that... The way it has grown over the years, from the front it looks normal, but it is really an odd shape! Ok for a literati I guess, but on a "regular" more formal style it might stick out and look really awkward!

This year, I just plan on working to refine the pads, re-work the jins the next time I decide to put together a batch of LS.. Try to get this one a little more refined over all. The growth is still juvenile on much of the tree, so I am hoping to develop more mature foliage... but with Pro-nanas, I typically just treat them like a type of needle Juniper... I never have had many that keep mostly tight, scale foliage.

 

[Eric Group]

Oh, and Do you think I should tilt it a little to the left the next time I repot to balance it out? I will probably repot again next year..

 

[Eric Group]

What a great trunk. Nice movement all the way up. Great potential for a restyle. Eager to see what you do with it.

Thanks Smoke! I agree, the trunk is really great on this one, and the old looking bark really adds to it as well!

 

[Smoke]

Oh, and Do you think I should tilt it a little to the left the next time I repot to balance it out? I will probably repot again next year..

Two things
lay your wire out a lttle more, it is too perpendicular to the branch/trunk. It will have greater holding power if kept to about 45 to 60 degrees.
Second your tree was not root bound. In fact it was just getting to the point it starts to thrive. junipers like it best when the root ball firms up and they get pretty tight in the pot. I would not repot it again next year. Junipers can easily go ten years between pottings unless its so small it pushes itself out of the pot.

 

[Eric Group]

Two things
lay your wire out a lttle more, it is too perpendicular to the branch/trunk. It will have greater holding power if kept to about 45 to 60 degrees.
Second your tree was not root bound. In fact it was just getting to the point it starts to thrive. junipers like it best when the root ball firms up and they get pretty tight in the pot. I would not repot it again next year. Junipers can easily go ten years between pottings unless its so small it pushes itself out of the pot.

Thanks, I guess the wire is a little tight... The rootball- though I know it is hard to see from the pic- was far beyond filling the pot, there was actually almost no "soil" left to speak of in the pot, and the tree was starting to struggle a bit. The only reason I was thinking of repotting again after just two years is because I went really easy on the roots because I could only get in so far due to the tight ball of roots in the pot. I know, looking at that pic it seems like there was a bunch of dirt around the edge of the rootball, but those were all roots! Crappy lighting and a crappy camera make it look like something else. I certainly wouldn't have thought to leave it in the pot for 10 years without a repot though! I always thought more around 3-5 for a Juni, so I appreciate the tip Al, and I am certainly still working on the wiring... I was shooting for 45 degrees, but it always seems to wind up too vertical!

 

[Smoke]

If the ball was that packed then I say you did good. It looks pretty loose in the pics. 3-5 is a good rule of thumb for a repot. The smaller medium size pots we use here in America could probably use the 3-5 standard. When you get to the big guys like in Japan, they are potted much more infrequently.

 

[Eric Group]

If the ball was that packed then I say you did good. It looks pretty loose in the pics. 3-5 is a good rule of thumb for a repot. The smaller medium size pots we use here in America could probably use the 3-5 standard. When you get to the big guys like in Japan, they are potted much more infrequently.

Thanks Smoke- do you think I should try to get a better balance the next time I repot by tilting it a little to the left?

 

[Nybonsai12]

Looks good, nice work. Only thing I'm unsure of would be the first jin on the right side. In one pic it looks like it comes out of the front of the trunk but less so in another pic. I think it kind of takes away from the nice shape you have going on and if removed you could maybe lower the branch above it some? Not sure if possible and I'm no design wizard, just my .02

 

[0soyoung]

Thanks Smoke- do you think I should try to get a better balance the next time I repot by tilting it a little to the left?

There are so many seemingly private conversations going on in this public place.

If I may interrupt, I think your pot is way too big (especially too deep) for this tree. So, not to worry for now about placement in this pot. It is a really nice trunk and I would be looking for a shallow tray/saucer for it. A Ron Lang inset might make for a very interesting composition.

... just a thought.

 

[sikadelic]

I have 2 of these and am still trying to figure out if I like them or not. The foliage is somewhat unappealing to me and I can't figure out what styling I like. Has anybody wired the foliage downward?

I do like yours though Eric. The trunk is great and I can see it looking fantastic as the pads tighten up.

 

[Eric Group]

There are so many seemingly private conversations going on in this public place.

If I may interrupt, I think your pot is way too big (especially too deep) for this tree. So, not to worry for now about placement in this pot. It is a really nice trunk and I would be looking for a shallow tray/saucer for it. A Ron Lang inset might make for a very interesting composition.

... just a thought.

Oh certainly I will upgrade the pot eventually! I am still developing this tree of course.. I appreciate the suggestion! I was more asking about the style and balance of the final form than just referring to the future of the tree in this specific pot I guess.

Generally speaking, I prefer the brown, unglazed ceramics like this on a rough looking Juni like this one! I have one that is a shallow oval I think might look good with this tree... But that would be a while from now when I am able to repot it again and work the roots down some more.

The one you linked is a really cool pot, and I agree it could fit a tree like this beautifully! Thanks!

 

[Eric Group]

I have 2 of these and am still trying to figure out if I like them or not. The foliage is somewhat unappealing to me and I can't figure out what styling I like. Has anybody wired the foliage downward?

I do like yours though Eric. The trunk is great and I can see it looking fantastic as the pads tighten up.

Thanks!

I have some that do have a lot of mature, "tight" foliage... They are great trees for small/ medium sized bonsai IMO. The scaly old looking bark they develop is really cool, they are tough as nails, branches bend really easy, grow pretty fast, take to pot culture well... But they do not develop that mature scale foliage quite as easy or as well is Shimpaku and when they do it is still not as small and fine as Shimpaku...

Other than they, they are great little trees IMO!

 

[Eric Group]

Thanks!

I have some that do have a lot of mature, "tight" foliage... They are great trees for small/ medium sized bonsai IMO. The scaly old looking bark they develop is really cool, they are tough as nails, branches bend really easy, grow pretty fast, take to pot culture well... But they do not develop that mature scale foliage quite as easy or as well is Shimpaku and when they do it is still not as small and fine as Shimpaku...

Other than they, they are great little trees IMO!

Here is the one I have with the most "Scale" foliage... I plan on making a thread about it as well...

 

[Eric Group]

Looks good, nice work. Only thing I'm unsure of would be the first jin on the right side. In one pic it looks like it comes out of the front of the trunk but less so in another pic. I think it kind of takes away from the nice shape you have going on and if removed you could maybe lower the branch above it some? Not sure if possible and I'm no design wizard, just my .02

You have a valid point about that jin... It looks worse in the picture than in person, but it is maybe a little too straight and too long.. I may shorten it one day, but I am actually thinking of creating a shari that moves down the trunk from that jin on the right to the smaller lowest jin on the left hand side... Wrap it around... I am kind of leaning toward MORE white on this tree instead of removing some. A few old pieces of jin broke off as I was wiring today- they were old and rotten I guess... one little shake/ brush against them and they fell off... They were small little twigs anyway which never last long as Jin. I think if I add that left branch to the mix, get some white twisting around the trunk, reapply the Lime sulfur to the jins on the tree that are a little grey looking now... The contrast will be there and this will look a lot more striking!

 

[Dav4]

Eric, you and I seem to style trees in the same speed...slow and steady. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having a tree evolve over several years instead of nailing the final design in one go. Heck, you canto almost any of my progression threads and see what I mean about "slow and steady". Along those lines, I am the king of long jins...it's a lot easier to shorten down the road then glue them back on. This is going to be a nice tree. I'd love to see the branches wired downward along with more severe curves in all directions to mimic the trunk. Good luck.

 

[Eric Group]

Eric, you and I seem to style trees in the same speed...slow and steady. There's absolutely nothing wrong with having a tree evolve over several years instead of nailing the final design in one go. Heck, you canto almost any of my progression threads and see what I mean about "slow and steady". Along those lines, I am the king of long jins...it's a lot easier to shorten down the road then glue them back on. This is going to be a nice tree. I'd love to see the branches wired downward along with more severe curves in all directions to mimic the trunk. Good luck.

Yeah, part of it is that I just don't have time to sit and spend 6-8 hours working on a tree at one time. I spent my brownie points from taking my wife to see 50 Shades of Grey on v-Day to get a couple hours in the garage yesterday working on this guy, or I probably wouldn't have had time to wire and restyle him as much as I did...

The other side of it with this tree is that I don't want to push it too hard all at once. I will probably let it grow for a couple months before pruning or working on it again. I'd like to add some more deadwood, but want to make sure it bounces back well from this round of pruning and bending first.

You think I should go lower with the branches Dave? I can do that... Next chance I get I will pull on them a little bit and see how it looks! Thanks!