Ponderosa Pine in Mid Atlantic States?

[Vincent Tanner]

In one of Mirai’s Asymmetry podcasts, Ryan mentions that Walter Pall has some Ponderosas and waters them twice a day in his garden. So who knows!

I keep mine dry and in the fullest, brightest, sunniest spot.

 

[Dav4]

In one of Mirai’s Asymmetry podcasts, Ryan mentions that Walter Pall has some Ponderosas and waters them twice a day in his garden. So who knows!

I keep mine dry and in the fullest, brightest, sunniest spot.

Walter lives south of Munich... where the Alps are! I'm sure his garden is at a higher altitude than much of the eastern US, and it's probably less humid due to the elevation. His garden gets a solid winter with good snow cover... perfect for cold hardy western conifers imo. They probably come out of their winter dormancy a lot stronger than the pondies that are kept at or near sea level on the east coast here.

 

[rockm]

In one of Mirai’s Asymmetry podcasts, Ryan mentions that Walter Pall has some Ponderosas and waters them twice a day in his garden. So who knows!

I keep mine dry and in the fullest, brightest, sunniest spot.

FWIW, I've noticed that problems seem to come up after a few years and aren't immediate.

Additionally, I also think relative success can depend on the individual tree. Some seem to be hardier than others, according to root mass accumulated, or even genetic propensity to survive better (who knows...) The one I have currently is tougher than nails. It typically sends out strong extension growht every summer, most every year, even though I give it no winter protection and it gets watered mostly when it rains--we're in a drought for the last two years, so intervals can be long...

The long and the short of it is--It's a crap shoot. You wanna bet a thousand (s) on one, no one is going to stop you. But remember, it's only money when the thing dies.

And FWIW, Mirai and Walter Pall are not keeping ponderosa on the eastern seaboard of the U.S. I'd be VERY careful translating their experiences to that environment.

 

[Shogun610]

In one of Mirai’s Asymmetry podcasts, Ryan mentions that Walter Pall has some Ponderosas and waters them twice a day in his garden. So who knows!

I keep mine dry and in the fullest, brightest, sunniest spot.

Listen to Bonsai Wire or Black Pondo podcast.. Mirai is only for millionaires (jk)… I believe they touch on those too and mention the delayed watering more arid high desert pines.

 

[penumbra]

I would be embarrassed to say how much I paid for mine. Suffice to say it is my most expensive bonsai purchase ever. The seduction of it was too much for me.

 

[Shogun610]

I would be embarrassed to say how much I paid for mine. Suffice to say it is my most expensive bonsai purchase ever. The seduction of it was too much for me.

Don’t be embarrassed I lost a Doug Fir(not fit for climate) , Shortleaf Pine(not fit for climate) , a Red Pine(fungus) , a Juniper (sue to my lack of understanding), crab apple ( poor repotting technique at time when I began) easily 650 of lost trees s

 

[rockm]

I would be embarrassed to say how much I paid for mine. Suffice to say it is my most expensive bonsai purchase ever. The seduction of it was too much for me.

I have more than a few embarrassments. Sometimes you just have to scratch an itch with a tree and deal with the consequences. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it doesn't

 

[Shogun610]

Don’t be embarrassed I lost a Doug Fir(not fit for climate) , Shortleaf Pine(not fit for climate) , a Red Pine(fungus) , a Juniper (sue to my lack of understanding), crab apple ( poor repotting technique at time when I began) easily 650 of lost trees s

Whoops meant Lodgepole pine .. oh and a white Oak ,,, I still lament losing that oak tree…

 

[Paradox]

I would be embarrassed to say how much I paid for mine. Suffice to say it is my most expensive bonsai purchase ever. The seduction of it was too much for me.

For me, there are so many other species of pine that are much much less fussy and do well over here. I never thought the ponderosa pines were all the great. All the ones I've seen have huge needles and only good for very large bonsai.

I get the allure of native species which is why I do have a few Pitch pines I'm playing with. Native to my area, they don't mind the weather.

 

[rockm]

For me, there are so many other species of pine that are much much less fussy and do well over here. I never thought the ponderosa pines were all the great. All the ones I've seen have huge needles and only good for very large bonsai.

I get the allure of native species which is why I do have a few Pitch pines I'm playing with. Native to my area, they don't mind the weather.

I get the attraction to Ponderosa bonsai. They're spectacular. Eastern pines in the wild don't get the exposure at altitude that Ponderosa do that produce spectacular trunks, deadwood, and bark. Eastern pines tend to be wallflowers comparably...

Because they're being collected by professionals in numbers, excellent Ponderosa raw-stock is also more affordable than Eastern and Southern U.S. pine raw stock. You can get a very nice three or four hundred year old jin-shari marked ponderosa with thick plate bark for $1,500 or so. Can't get any Eastern collected pine anywhere near that quality for the same money.

I can count a couple of hundred great Ponderosa bonsai and maybe two excellent Loblolly pine bonsai. Pitch pine is the best candidate in the east for bonsai, but again, it's not common (not as common as it used to be) in bonsai use. Decent collection areas for Pitch pine are limited geographically and legally as well, at least compared to the millions of square miles of collectible territory out west on public BLM lands.

 

[Shogun610]

I get the attraction to Ponderosa bonsai. They're spectacular. Eastern pines in the wild don't get the exposure at altitude that Ponderosa do that produce spectacular trunks, deadwood, and bark. Eastern pines tend to be wallflowers comparably...

Because they're being collected by professionals in numbers, excellent Ponderosa raw-stock is also more affordable than Eastern and Southern U.S. pine raw stock. You can get a very nice three or four hundred year old jin-shari marked ponderosa with thick plate bark for $1,500 or so. Can't get any Eastern collected pine anywhere near that quality for the same money.

I can count a couple of hundred great Ponderosa bonsai and maybe two excellent Loblolly pine bonsai. Pitch pine is the best candidate in the east for bonsai, but again, it's not common (not as common as it used to be) in bonsai use. Decent collection areas for Pitch pine are limited geographically and legally as well, at least compared to the millions of square miles of collectible territory out west on public BLM lands.

I’ve stated this a million times , I do think Pitch pine and other native pines pursuits are good .. I’d take a great eastern native pine over a western pine any day but that’s because it will do better on the east .. if I lived in west coast I’d have a different perspective. I also think it’s because of exposure everyone has to pondo s

 

[rockm]

I’ve stated this a million times , I do think Pitch pine and other native pines pursuits are good .. I’d take a great eastern native pine over a western pine any day but that’s because it will do better on the east .. if I lived in west coast I’d have a different perspective. I also think it’s because of exposure everyone has to pondo s

Oh, I agree that pursuing eastern species of pine for bonsai is good, great even. However, there are just not enough of them to make much of a dent in opinions or buying in the bonsai market. Unfortunately, Ponderosa has become the "it" species for U.S. collected bonsai across the country. People like R. Neal at Mirai and even Bjorn at Eisei En, are using it extensively. It gets the notice and the spotlight. Unless people like them start using species like Loblolly and Pitch pine REGULARLY, the species are always going to be mostly unused. Back in the day, Eastern White Cedar (thuja--arborvitae) used to be the rage as many prominent bonsai people were collecting it and using it. The species lost some of its most vocal supports (Reiner Goebel and a few others) and it dropped off the radar...

 

[Wood]

the National Bonsai and Penjing Museum almost lost a pretty valuable collected California Juniper because of too much water.

The museum also lost an incredible Ponderosa pine this spring collected by Dan Robinson (I think) for the same reason. It had struggled for a few years because of the same issues

 

[Shogun610]

Oh, I agree that pursuing eastern species of pine for bonsai is good, great even. However, there are just not enough of them to make much of a dent in opinions or buying in the bonsai market. Unfortunately, Ponderosa has become the "it" species for U.S. collected bonsai across the country. People like R. Neal at Mirai and even Bjorn at Eisei En, are using it extensively. It gets the notice and the spotlight. Unless people like them start using species like Loblolly and Pitch pine REGULARLY, the species are always going to be mostly unused. Back in the day, Eastern White Cedar (thuja--arborvitae) used to be the rage as many prominent bonsai people were collecting it and using it. The species lost some of its most vocal supports (Reiner Goebel and a few others) and it dropped off the radar...

And easier to collect with permission on east for those of us who are “ starving” artists .. till I find another burner car to drive up north on east mine won’t last another 100 miles.. I gave permission in 2 locations each in Vermont and upstate NY

 

[Vincent Tanner]

You wanna bet a thousand (s) on one, no one is going to stop you. But remember, it's only money when the thing dies.

Fortunately mine was only $125!

You make great points and share good advice, thank you!

I bought mine when I was even more of a newbie and infatuated by all the big Ponderosas that guys like Ryan and Bjorn were showing on their YouTube channels.

Now that I’m in the local club, I have a much better concept for viable successful species.

 

[Paradox]

I get the attraction to Ponderosa bonsai. They're spectacular. Eastern pines in the wild don't get the exposure at altitude that Ponderosa do that produce spectacular trunks, deadwood, and bark. Eastern pines tend to be wallflowers comparably...

Because they're being collected by professionals in numbers, excellent Ponderosa raw-stock is also more affordable than Eastern and Southern U.S. pine raw stock. You can get a very nice three or four hundred year old jin-shari marked ponderosa with thick plate bark for $1,500 or so. Can't get any Eastern collected pine anywhere near that quality for the same money.

I can count a couple of hundred great Ponderosa bonsai and maybe two excellent Loblolly pine bonsai. Pitch pine is the best candidate in the east for bonsai, but again, it's not common (not as common as it used to be) in bonsai use. Decent collection areas for Pitch pine are limited geographically and legally as well, at least compared to the millions of square miles of collectible territory out west on public BLM lands.

Sure but as you said earlier in the thread, Ponderosa are a headache to keep alive in the humidity and climate of the east coast.

I don't need a tree that is a problem child because I'm trying to keep it in a climate it's not adapted to.

With the current trends of warming temperatures, I'm already concerned about the long term viability of some of the species I'm able to keep now.

 

[Michigan Tree Murderer]

I see that you treat in March, September, and December. Would you mind sharing any other details? I’m gonna pick up a bag of those Bondie Infuse Fungicide Granules for my Ponderosa. (Is this the one?) I’m curious how much and how you apply. The instructions seem to be for spreaders and per 1,000 sq ft.

Thanks for any info you can provide.

Did you get a bag of the Bonide Infuse? If so did you figure out the application rate? If so can you share? I ordered a bag for an elm and had the same question.

 

[mj_barb]

Love the discussion, might get a relatively cheap one to start.

Did you get a bag of the Bonide Infuse? If so did you figure out the application rate? If so can you share? I ordered a bag for an elm and had the same question

I use Bjorn’s recommendation of a tsp for shohin, tbs for larger trees. It’s mentioned in his deciduous trees video, but he says he does it for everyone in the garden.

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