Plant lighting for beginners

[tstrum]

Hello all!
I have been using a T5 fluorescent bulb to a provide support to a few trees I have on a north facing balcony that gets no direct sunlight. (This is just a temporary set up until I move later this year.) So far it appears to be working "ok" but obviously my trees aren't thriving. Anyway, I just wanted to get your guys' thoughts on T5's as a supporting source for trees that don't get full sun.
Thank you in advance for your thought!

 

[petegreg]

I use T5 fluorescent light for my tropicals in the winter, timed from the dusk to 20:00 (08:00 pm). The tubes are designed for aqua plants, so the colour spectrum should be ok and it works. And it's in the kitchen, so it lightens my way to the fridge Cheap & useful.

 

[Hobbes]

Awesome write up! I'm new to bonsai, but coming from the reef aquarium hobby this is right up my alley. BonsaiNut or Grim, what kind of par numbers should we be looking for? I've got plenty of t5ho, metal halide equipment and access to a par meter so I won't have to guess.

Also Grim, you wouldn't happen to be the same GrimReefer from reefcentral would you?

 

[GrimLore]

BonsaiNut or Grim, what kind of par numbers should we be looking for? I've got plenty of t5ho, metal halide equipment and access to a par meter so I won't have to guess.

The lights you have are very good and used by many. Although most are concerned with full spectrum and lumens and the par question rarely shows up to be honest but I understand why you see it as important. Rather then explaining it my way before having finished my morning coffee I quickly found this information on Wiki and copied it. There is a lot more in the article but I think this is what you are looking for -

"Photosynthetically active radiation, often abbreviated PAR, designates the spectral range (wave band) of solar radiation from 400 to 700 nanometers that photosynthetic organisms are able to use in the process of photosynthesis. This spectral region corresponds more or less with the range of light visible to the human eye. Photons at shorter wavelengths tend to be so energetic that they can be damaging to cells and tissues, but are mostly filtered out by the ozone layer in the stratosphere. Photons at longer wavelengths do not carry enough energy to allow photosynthesis to take place."

The link to the full article is - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthetically_active_radiation

Although I am not the GrimReefer but my Father and I used to both work in the scientific industry and we bred fish for all of the stores in Western New York when I was young.

You mentioned a par meter is handy and @JudyB might have some experience with it in her profession although I am guessing you use it in Reef Aquaria.

Grimmy

 

[Hobbes]

Thanks for the quick response Grimmy! If experienced bonsai people don't worry about the numbers then I won't put much stock into it, I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here. I'll just read up on the signs of too much and too little light.

 

[GrimLore]

Thanks for the quick response Grimmy! If experienced bonsai people don't worry about the numbers then I won't put much stock into it, I'm not trying to reinvest the wheel here. I'll just read up on the signs of too much and too little light.

With the fixtures you described close enough to give full light coverage but far away enough as not to damage the plants from the heat they produce. Most everyone agrees on 16 hours a day as well as me. I have been doing it slightly different mimicking large growers - I do use them for 16 hours but I set them for 8 on and 4 off 8 on 4 off daily. Again, that is what I do and I am pretty certain most just run them 16 hours a day. I cannot tell you from experience if it makes a difference as that is just what I have always done.

Grimmy

 

[Paradox]

I wish we could consolidate these lighting threads. I've repeated myself so many times, I'm beginning to feel like a broken record.

I have 2 tables for my ficus and Brazilian rain trees. Both use the same kind of fixture except one table has one over it and the other has 2.

The fixtures I have are 4 foot fluorescent lights each with 3 32 watt t5 daylight bulbs.

Last summer (2015), I didnt have the bench space outside so my ficus and BRT spent 20 months under those lights and grew well. Now they have summer space and only spend Oct-May inside.

 

[M. Frary]

One thing I see in the lighting threads or don't see I should say is bulb life.
After so many hours of use fluorescent bulbs deteriorate. Needing changed every so often. A new bulb is brighter than an old one.
That being said I don't grow anything inside so I could just be talking out of my ass.

 

[Paradox]

One thing I see in the lighting threads or don't see I should say is bulb life.
After so many hours of use fluorescent bulbs deteriorate. Needing changed every so often. A new bulb is brighter than an old one.
That being said I don't grow anything inside so I could just be talking out of my ass.

There is some truth to that. I had a flourescent light fixture (before I switched to LEDS) over my freshwater planted fish tank. They recommended changing those bulbs 1x a year.

The same probably holds true for flourescent lights over plants.

 

[GrimLore]

One thing I see in the lighting threads or don't see I should say is bulb life.
After so many hours of use fluorescent bulbs deteriorate. Needing changed every so often. A new bulb is brighter than an old one.
That being said I don't grow anything inside so I could just be talking out of my ass.

There is some truth to that. I had a flourecent light fixture (before U switched to LEDS) over my freshwater planted fish tank. They recommended changing those bulbs 1x a year.

The same probably holds true for flourescent lights over plants.

Same as reptile lights the useful life varies by product. Even though they light they are no longer doing what they are supposed to. For the tortoise we have a calendar reminder that tells us when to change each of the three and have replacements on hand. The T8 florescent tubes I use are rated for 10,000 useful hours so I get two winters out of the bulbs when I do the math. I also keep spare bulbs and fixtures on hand should there be a failure as well as timers.
Indoor growing, once settled and properly controlled is easy. Getting there, well...





Yes just inexpensive T8 grow lights that work!

Grimmy

 

[M. Frary]

Phew! I so could have been talking out of my ass!
What do you know? I wasn't for a change!

 

[GrimLore]

Phew! I so could have been talking out of my ass!
What do you know? I wasn't for a change!

I have been using them 5- 6 years now and I am positive. For instance if I shut those five down for the Summer next season and turn them on in the Fall they will not glow that blue lavender - it is a snow white room by the way so that camera setting shows full spectrum color. They will glow white with green ends as this year is their second season.

Got your back!

Grimmy

 

[M. Frary]

Got your back!

Thanks man.
I knew I heard or read somewhere that was the case.

 

[GrimLore]

I knew I heard or read somewhere that was the case.

From your reptile raising days I went from Aquaria to Reptiles to Plants and a lot of the rules are the same.

Grimmy

 

[RedJamesBonsai]

Good idea - make use of all the space and the wattage use on them is really inexpensive. I don't like going to WalMart but when I do I pick them up a couple there for 10.97 each - stockpiling them as I expand.

Grimmy

Light of America grow light or cabinet light with a growing bulb in it ?

 

[GrimLore]

Light of America grow light or cabinet light with a growing bulb in it ?

I buy the Fixture and Bulb combination at WalMart as pictured below. I get replacement bulbs from this distributor http://www.advancedgreenergysolutio...t-RB17T8GL?www.advancedgreenergysolutions.com.
WalMart almost always shows them as not available or no longer available on the site but I find them to almost always in stock at the two closest to me. I asked the manager about it and he shrugged and told me it is a normal stock item and if they are not on the shelf they will be within two weeks
That place for the bulbs is the most competitive I have been able to find and they are prompt.

Edit: Open the box for the fixture carefully along a seam as the mounting template is printed inside the box



Grimmy

 

[RedJamesBonsai]

Thanks for the reply. Yeah seen that as soon as I asked the question

 

[GrimLore]

Thanks for the reply. Yeah seen that as soon as I asked the question

You can also mount them a few different ways if you are creative -

Standard -



Adjustable using jack chain -



Even vertical if needed but a bit tricky -



Grimmy

 

[JoeR]

Same as reptile lights the useful life varies by product. Even though they light they are no longer doing what they are supposed to. For the tortoise we have a calendar reminder that tells us when to change each of the three and have replacements on hand. The T8 florescent tubes I use are rated for 10,000 useful hours so I get two winters out of the bulbs when I do the math. I also keep spare bulbs and fixtures on hand should there be a failure as well as timers.
Indoor growing, once settled and properly controlled is easy. Getting there, well...

View attachment 118218

View attachment 118219

Yes just inexpensive T8 grow lights that work!

Grimmy

I cant believe that these work for you! I have two of the exact same lights, and they dont seem to make a difference. I cant even use them for a medium light planted aquarium...

 

[GrimLore]

I cant believe that these work for you! I have two of the exact same lights, and they dont seem to make a difference. I cant even use them for a medium light planted aquarium...

They work for a variety of reasons -
The room is temperature controlled.
The entire room has air circulation, a 52 inch ceiling fan running in reverse 24 hours a day and the air filter.
The room is humidity controlled with a programmable humidifier and each space/shelf has a constant but different level of humidity.
I maintain the lights and timers replacing bulbs and such as they reach their end of useful life.

By setting it up this way I can monitor and keep plants where they do best. For example the plants on the lowest level are cuttings and get the most humidity. The cacti on the North wall are placed much higher and get far less. The same placement applies for all in there. Doing this has resulted this year in 6 micro climates to work with, last year I had 5.

The lights provide enough light at 16 hours a day to keep them otherwise healthy. Using heavier HO T5 type lights does produce more growth BUT it is leggy and requires a lot of trimming. My goal is health not growing although they do anyways but it is not leggy growth with long internodes. When we have Bonsai again next year I will document each plant and share if requested.

It is a balancing act but once all setup and monitored for a week or so at different heights and positions does not need to be further adjusted.

I was going to add another 48 foot of similar shelving around the parameter of the room but it is not necessary this year. When I do the room won't need adjustments just monitoring of each level to determine best plants and placement, again for about a week. I figure over the next couple of years I can develop a stable up to perhaps 8 microclimate grow room.

Grimmy