Pinus Pinea for a beginner

[Wulfskaar]

I ended up breaking one candle in half on a crossing branch that will definitely need to go anyways, so I guess I'll find out what happens down the line. There really isn't a lot of info online about Pinus pinea, so I have to take some chances.

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Pruning a couple candles right after repotting is no big deal. In general, especially with pines less vigorous than Pinus pinea, one usually allows the tree a full growing season to recover with zero pruning. De-candling and pruning the following year can cut back more than one seasons new growth.

You can wire the tree in late summer or early autumn. Wiring is not as stressful on a tree as pruning.

About nebari. Often the beginner mistake is to expose the nebari too soon. The nebari should be buried while in development. It is only exposed when the tree is moved to its "exhibition pot". In general the nebari should be covered by at least 1/4 inch of media, roughly a half centimeter for metric folk. If exposed too early, fine roots will dehydrate and die.

About your knee. Next time you repot, cut that entire root off flush at the trunk. It will never "flatten out" and will usually be considered "ugly" by most bonsai observers. If you like the look, that's okay, but if you still think it is ugly when you repot. Cut it off flush at the trunk. If the wound is buried at least 1/4 inch or a little more under the media, it will be moist enough to sprout new roots at that point. Do not use any sealer for the cut wound.

 

[Wulfskaar]

Pruning a couple candles right after repotting is no big deal. In general, especially with pines less vigorous than Pinus pinea, one usually allows the tree a full growing season to recover with zero pruning. De-candling and pruning the following year can cut back more than one seasons new growth.

You can wire the tree in late summer or early autumn. Wiring is not as stressful on a tree as pruning.

About nebari. Often the beginner mistake is to expose the nebari too soon. The nebari should be buried while in development. It is only exposed when the tree is moved to its "exhibition pot". In general the nebari should be covered by at least 1/4 inch of media, roughly a half centimeter for metric folk. If exposed too early, fine roots will dehydrate and die.

About your knee. Next time you repot, cut that entire root off flush at the trunk. It will never "flatten out" and will usually be considered "ugly" by most bonsai observers. If you like the look, that's okay, but if you still think it is ugly when you repot. Cut it off flush at the trunk. If the wound is buried at least 1/4 inch or a little more under the media, it will be moist enough to sprout new roots at that point. Do not use any sealer for the cut wound.

Thanks for that, Leo! Even though I ignored some of your advice early on, I still greatly appreciate the wisdom. I will deeply consider every bit of it.

 

[AnacortesSteve]

Nice to see your progress, I have a couple hundred Stone Pines I grew from seed, my first 3 year olds are starting to get mature needles, will have to experiment to see how it goes. The mother tree doesn't have really long needles so maybe they will say JBP length.
I sold most of my older ones but the young ones are fattening up fast.
I finally mastered the art of ISP cuttings last month, all my cuttings in the past looked like the lower left one, just 1 root. Now maybe I will get some nebari that matches my JBP cuttings.
Good luck and I will be watching your tree.

 

[Wulfskaar]

About your knee. Cut it off flush at the trunk. If the wound is buried at least 1/4 inch or a little more under the media, it will be moist enough to sprout new roots at that point. Do not use any sealer for the cut wound.

Good day, @Leo in N E Illinois! If there are no real roots there on the "knee", would I be able to cut the bark and cambium where that knee is and cover it with soil to start getting roots to grow there? Right now, it's just trunk in that spot.

Also, is it best to wait until repot? I don't plan to repot until spring 2023. I'm in Southern CA so it never really gets cold. I guess the question is, when is a good time or bad time to do this?

EDIT: Adding pics. I'd like to encourage roots to grow (in red).

 

[Leo in N E Illinois]

Wait until you repot, 2023 is fine, there is no rush.

When you had this exposed (when you took the picture of the roots). Top of photo as north, you should have taken that root in the southwest corner that turns and runs due east. You should have used wire or pins or nails to force that root to run southwest. That slender root would have thickened. Now in 2023, when you repot that root might be too woody to turn to the southwest.

 

[Wulfskaar]

Wait until you repot, 2023 is fine, there is no rush.

When you had this exposed (when you took the picture of the roots). Top of photo as north, you should have taken that root in the southwest corner that turns and runs due east. You should have used wire or pins or nails to force that root to run southwest. That slender root would have thickened. Now in 2023, when you repot that root might be too woody to turn to the southwest.

About a minute after the picture was taken, I did try to straighten that root. Unfortunately, the root broke at the trunk, so I just finished the job and removed it.

I'll wait on root development then. Thank you for the guidance, Leo!

 

[Wulfskaar]

I cleaned it up a bit, removing most of the dead needles. It looks much cleaner!


I will probably chop the top 1/3 or 1/2 and try to train the lower branches up into an umbrella. This tree has a lot of upper strength as you can see, so I'm hoping that will add vigor to the lower branches that will become the main canopy.

 

[Kadebe]

With raised garden beds, I have always been given the advice to used untreated wood. I am not sure if that is for the sake of edible food, or for the health of the plant.

Untreated wood will rot and this benefits your substrate. It ensures that Mycorrhiza and micro-organisms come into your substrate from which your trees benefit.

 

[Crazy Diamond]

Are you going to style it with adult or juvenile needles?

 

[Wulfskaar]

Are you going to style it with adult or juvenile needles?

The upper part, that will likely be chopped, is really trying to push the adult needles. I'll definitely try to keep the juvenile needles, but I won't freak out if it's not working. To me, there are some cool ones with the adult needles.

 

[Wulfskaar]

I'm thinking of pruning and maybe even a chop of the upper branches in order to get some more vigor down in the lower branches.

However, I just read that chopping off the "crown" branches of Pinus pinea will kill the tree. Is this accurate? If so, how would one ever be able to turn one into bonsai?

 

[Crazy Diamond]

That I think that aplies for big trees that dont have lower branches, in a young tree with lower branches and juvenile ramification you can cut them just like any other pine, if you want to play safe pinch the top branches but let some needles and let the bottom ones untouched

 

[Wulfskaar]

That I think that aplies for big trees that dont have lower branches, in a young tree with lower branches and juvenile ramification you can cut them just like any other pine, if you want to play safe pinch the top branches but let some needles and let the bottom ones untouched

Thanks! I don't want to kill it, so I'll maybe go in stages.

 

[MacSpook]

As a beginner, I'm enjoying watching your progression with this tree, good luck. Will be good to see how it turns out.

I have a question about the style of the trees in the example pics posted.





Are these perhaps, in an Equatorial region where the sun is overhead most of he day? That could be tricky to simulate.

 

[Crazy Diamond]

As a beginner, I'm enjoying watching your progression with this tree, good luck. Will be good to see how it turns out.

I have a question about the style of the trees in the example pics posted.

View attachment 416905

View attachment 416906

Are these perhaps, in an Equatorial region where the sun is overhead most of he day? That could be tricky to simulate.

No, thats a mediterranean region probably Spain or Italy, they just grow like that, Aleppo pines also grow in the same zones and dont have that umbrella canopy

 

[MacSpook]

No, thats a mediterranean region probably Spain or Italy, they just grow like that, Aleppo pines also grow in the same zones and dont have that umbrella canopy

Oh well, there goes that theory, thanks for posting reply. Every day is a school day at the moment.

 

[Wulfskaar]

@MacSpook Yes, as far as I can tell, it's just the way it naturally grows.

Which brings up an interesting topic... apical dominance. I think this type of tree wants to send it's energy upward, so the upper branches are healthy and grow more than the lower ones. The lower branches die off and you end up with the umbrella shape.

I'm having this issue on my tree; it's got way more vigor and growth up top, which we have to control in bonsai. I'll soon be cutting off some of the candles and a few upper branches so that the tree will be forced to send more vigor into the lower branches. I think that's how it works anyways.

 

[Crazy Diamond]

Look at this one by David cortizas, he just pinches all the branches to get backbuding

 

[k4d3n]

I am a complete noob as you will probably realise! lol
I have recently just got a pinus pinea ( silver crest ) In nursery form (homebase)
12 cm roughly and will be looking to ultimately train into a bonsai!

My main noob questions are..

can i still repot 4th apr?

i will grow it out as a potted tree until i get desired trunk width?

How much (if any) of the roots can trim? or do i just leave roots and repot?

I plan to grow for at least 3-4 yrs before starting the true bonsai training!

Absolutely any advice is welcome. I am here to learn! view me as a open blank bonsai book!!

Thank you everyone who contributes sound and sensible advice!