Pine/Fir Bark Sourcing

[rockm]

When you say you don’t mix soil anymore, what do you mean by that? You buy pre mixed bonsai soil for all your trees?

Yes. I do buy pre mixed soil. No shame in it. I buy in bulk 50- lb bags and pick it it up at my source’s location down the interstate from me . the price is a lot lower than mail order

Mixing your own soil gets tedious and time consuming the longer you do it. Not to mention taking up alot of space in the basement backyard etc.

I could spend days and weeks running down and picking up soil ingredients or I can spend time actually repotting trees. I have about 30 trees but some are very large (my largest pot takes about 15-20 gallons of soil).

I have a source for soil and get what I need as I need it. Not cheap but neither is the storage space labor and time spent on self made soil. Also the prepared stuff I get is mostly superior to what I can scrape together from Home Depot etc

 

[elijah_moncrieff]

Yes. I do buy pre mixed soil. No shame in it. I buy in bulk 50- lb bags and pick it it up at my source’s location down the interstate from me . the price is a lot lower than mail order

Mixing your own soil gets tedious and time consuming the longer you do it. Not to mention taking up alot of space in the basement backyard etc.

I could spend days and weeks running down and picking up soil ingredients or I can spend time actually repotting trees. I have about 30 trees but some are very large (my largest pot takes about 15-20 gallons of soil).

I have a source for soil and get what I need as I need it. Not cheap but neither is the storage space labor and time spent on self made soil. Also the prepared stuff I get is mostly superior to what I can scrape together from Home Depot etc

That’s awesome! I agree that time is money and convenience is worth its weight in gold. Also, the fact that you have a local pickup in bulk sizes is fantastic. If I had the same access I’d certainly consider not having to mix. Maybe one day bonsai will gain popularity and more of us can get access to these luxuries. Till then, I’m mixin! Haha

 

[rockm]

That’s awesome! I agree that time is money and convenience is worth its weight in gold. Also, the fact that you have a local pickup in bulk sizes is fantastic. If I had the same access I’d certainly consider not having to mix. Maybe one day bonsai will gain popularity and more of us can get access to these luxuries. Till then, I’m mixin! Haha

FWIW, not a luxury and even all that convenient. It's 140 mile round trip through some of the worst traffic in the nation. Took years of contacts and finding local hobbyists and reputable sellers. Sure would help everyone if you put your location info in your avatar so we don't have to go back and search for it. Location is everything when it comes to this kind of thing. Effective ingredients are highly local and can change.

I think you're in AZ. Phoenix has a Bonsai Society. So does Tucson. Don't know about Northern AZ, though. Even if you're not near the Valley of the Sun, a phone call or an email to their leadership or general info asking about what to use and where to get it will likely get you on a decent track to finding the best resources. Club members have already done the legwork for the best stuff and where to get it.

 

[penumbra]

I have used bonsai Jack before also, but their prices have gone way too high and for someone like myself with over 100 trees I cannot justify spending that much money on only one soil ingredient. I’m glad it works for you though!

100 plants may seem like a lot to you, but not to me. For the plants I have in bonsai pots, I rely on Bonsai Jack for most of my materials. This is probably a few less than 100. But for the 500+ plants in training, I use my nursery mix.

I buy in bulk 50- lb bags and pick it it up at my source’s location down the interstate from me .

Can you please share this?

 

[elijah_moncrieff]

FWIW, not a luxury and even all that convenient. It's 140 mile round trip through some of the worst traffic in the nation. Took years of contacts and finding local hobbyists and reputable sellers. Sure would help everyone if you put your location info in your avatar so we don't have to go back and search for it. Location is everything when it comes to this kind of thing. Effective ingredients are highly local and can change.

I think you're in AZ. Phoenix has a Bonsai Society. So does Tucson. Don't know about Northern AZ, though. Even if you're not near the Valley of the Sun, a phone call or an email to their leadership or general info asking about what to use and where to get it will likely get you on a decent track to finding the best resources. Club members have already done the legwork for the best stuff and where to get it.

I updated my location, I didn't know I was going to be posting much on here so when I set up my account so I didn't fill in all of the blanks. I will reach out to the local clubs and see what I can find out as you suggested. I wasn't trying to downplay your source for soil btw, or that its super easy/convenient for you to get, I was just saying I hope one day bonsai will be more popular so it doesn't take years of research and work (as you have had to do) to find a reputable source for materials. Wishful thinking I'm sure but either way I was not meaning to detract from the work that went into finding your diamond in the rough. I happen to live in a part of the country where bonsai just isn't popular so it's a little harder but I'm figuring it out with time. If I were still in NorCal where I grew up I would be able to get all kinds of cool stuff (plants, soil, pots etc.) but I digress.

100 plants may seem like a lot to you, but not to me. For the plants I have in bonsai pots, I rely on Bonsai Jack for most of my materials. This is probably a few less than 100. But for the 500+ plants in training, I use my nursery mix.

Fair enough, what do you use for your nursery mix if you don't mind me asking?

 

[@Mountainman6114]

So, I know this has been talked about on older threads but looking for updated info or opinions of people who have tried these ideas and their thoughts. I am in search of Fir bark (preferably) or Pine bark in large quantities. Ideally in graded sizes that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. I know I can go to HD or Lowes and buy large bark nuggets and try to jerry rig some contraption to make them smaller but have not found a great option to reduce the size of pieces without having to spend hours of crushing, chopping, grinding etc. and then additional time sifting through all of the fines. Alternatively, for those of us that do use organics/bark in our soil, these are the options I have come up with, all prices include shipping unless available in person from the local store:
- Repti bark (still a bit on the bigger size in terms of particles, I have found this to average 1/4-1/2") from Petco/PetSmart at $25 for 24 dry quarts
- Orchiata precision grade fine orchid bark (this would be amazing if I could get it delivered for less than $85 for a 35L bag) but again I'm looking for bulk and at an affordable price.
- The Bonsai Supply 1/4" pine bark, high quality, but still only getting 20 quarts for $53 shipped
- Waldor.com sells fine grade fir bark 2 cu ft bag for $86 shipped
- EB Stone fine orchid mix 3 cu ft for $86, never seen this product in person, but thinking this might be the best option I have found for the quantity, even though it's still a bit pricey.
I know this is already turning into a long winded post, but I have also looked into the option of using a manual meat grinder as someone demonstrated on YT with a #12 grinding plate and looks to give pretty good particle size. But, I wonder the amount of time and energy it would take to produce 2+ cubic feet of usable material. Other options I have thought about are using a wood chipper and buying the larger bark nuggets from a big box store and chipping them smaller but I'm not sure how small that will get them and I'd rather not have to buy a wood chipper as 'm sure they aren't cheap. If anyone has tried any of these options or has suggestions or ideas that could help me to save some money I would greatly appreciate them!

Menards has pine bark mulch in large bags, pieces are smaller than a dime. If you don't have a Menards close I have found the same stuff on Amazon.

 

[rockm]

I updated my location, I didn't know I was going to be posting much on here so when I set up my account so I didn't fill in all of the blanks. I will reach out to the local clubs and see what I can find out as you suggested. I wasn't trying to downplay your source for soil btw, or that its super easy/convenient for you to get, I was just saying I hope one day bonsai will be more popular so it doesn't take years of research and work (as you have had to do) to find a reputable source for materials. Wishful thinking I'm sure but either way I was not meaning to detract from the work that went into finding your diamond in the rough. I happen to live in a part of the country where bonsai just isn't popular so it's a little harder but I'm figuring it out with time. If I were still in NorCal where I grew up I would be able to get all kinds of cool stuff (plants, soil, pots etc.) but I digress.

Fair enough, what do you use for your nursery mix if you don't mind me asking?

I didn’t think you were downplaying the experience. I posted that to show it can take sometimes considerable effort to get what is always going to be a specialty item. The logistics of soil means shipping and availability will always be a challenge and buying already made soil has a lot of advantages over do it yourself (and vice versa).

Do get in touch with clubs. Clubs here sometimes do a “mix party” of sort where members throw in to buy ingredients in bulk (like a dump truck load) of soil ingredients and mix them for those that pitched in.

Vegas also has a bonsai club Or two

BTW I love the Flagstaff area. Beautiful place.

 

[elijah_moncrieff]

I didn’t think you were downplaying the experience. I posted that to show it can take sometimes considerable effort to get what is always going to be a specialty item. The logistics of soil means shipping and availability will always be a challenge and buying already made soil has a lot of advantages over do it yourself (and vice versa).

Do get in touch with clubs. Clubs here sometimes do a “mix party” of sort where members throw in to buy ingredients in bulk (like a dump truck load) of soil ingredients and mix them for those that pitched in.

Vegas also has a bonsai club Or two

BTW I love the Flagstaff area. Beautiful place.

Whoa, a dump truck load of soil would be awesome! My wife loves Disneyland and every time we go I make sure to stock up on Akadama from House of Bonsai in Anaheim. I’ve considered buying a pallet of soil ingredients from them since it would be a much better deal. But, $2,000+ would be easier to split amongst a bunch of other club members. Maybe one day I’ll get the courage to arrange something like that if I find people in the clubs who are interested in a mix party of some sorts like your talking about. Thanks btw, Flagstaff is a cool place to live. Sometimes it’s a demanding climate to grow bonsai. But, my new 10’x16’ greenhouse helps considerably. Especially in the winter when it’s -15! Thanks again for your help and suggestions

 

[penumbra]

Fair enough, what do you use for your nursery mix if you don't mind me asking?

Basically I use a commercial grow mix like Pro Mix with pine bark added. Sometimes I add extra perlite and sometimes I use some leaf mulch for plants like azaleas. My pine bark is used at the rate of 50 to 80% depending on size of plants and pots. You can also use some dolometic lime for some plants. And a bit a carbon is not a bad idea.

 

[elijah_moncrieff]

This sounds like a great mix! I’m curious about the dolemitic lime. I see it in bagged gardening soil often and wondered if it’s to increase the ph because of other acidic ingredients (pine bark for example) or is there a different purpose? I’m asking because in AZ we have really hard water which in turn makes my soil less acidic over time and I typically use acidic fert periodically through the year to combat this. If you were in my situation would you then omit the dolometic lime?

 

[penumbra]

This sounds like a great mix! I’m curious about the dolomitic lime. I see it in bagged gardening soil often and wondered if it’s to increase the ph because of other acidic ingredients (pine bark for example) or is there a different purpose? I’m asking because in AZ we have really hard water which in turn makes my soil less acidic over time and I typically use acidic fert periodically through the year to combat this. If you were in my situation would you then omit the dolometic lime?

I have been usually the same basic mix, which I alter as needed, for many decades. Lime is really not as crucial in the mix except certain plants. It i is up to you to identify those plants that require more calcium. No, its not just about pH, but it is a factor. A dolomite lime will buffer pretty close to 7 and hold it there.

 

[elijah_moncrieff]

I have been usually the same basic mix, which I alter as needed, for many decades. Lime is really not as crucial in the mix except certain plants. It i is up to you to identify those plants that require more calcium. No, its not just about pH, but it is a factor. A dolomite lime will buffer pretty close to 7 and hold it there.

This is super cool, I’ll have to do some more reading about lime and consider incorporating it once I have a better understanding. Thank you for sharing!