philosophy study, anyone?

Cajunrider said:
You are getting to what I wanted to say. We have a right to make or not make that error. That right cannot be denied. It is a natural right to belief. We are allowed to make that eternal choice.
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Certainly. I agree. For the most part. I still have trouble with your expression of calling it a natural right. I think that’s where we are having the misunderstanding.
 
Peter.Constantine325 said:
Beliefs matter spiritually, if not eternally, in all religions and philosophies. Because ignorant and erroneous beliefs ultimately cause suffering.
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Peter.Constantine325 said:
You’re obviously interpreting the situation wrong. Read his replies to me in general. He’s the one who can’t handle disagreement. Do you really think his reply to me was acceptable? He’s the one who shut down the conversation.

There‘s two billion Christians and a billion Muslims. That means half of the world thinks Jesus is the Messiah. So I don’t see where you’re getting most people at.
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Hindu (1.5 billion)/Buddhists (470 million), Jews (17 million), and a billion Muslims--who think Jesus was a Messiah sent to the Children of Israel, which doesn't make Muslims believers in Jesus being resurrected as their savior, as he is seen as the penultimate prophet, not the ultimate one. That would seem to disqualify them in your fevered equation. Dumping all those souls into a burning pit of hell seems like a lot of screaming, pain, as well as a waste for a Merciful God imply being "wrong" about what they believe...
 
Gabler said:
Yes, but that's easier said than done. If we could all just get along, there would be world peace. Some media make that harder than others. The internet is very good at fostering division.
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Well that’s why these forums have moderators. It’s just that we can’t shut down conversations entirely. As long as they’re civil and polite, they should be allowed. I should be able to express whatever opinion I have. For example, I should be able to say that men and women are different, that women have a tendency to be submissive and think emotionally. Notice that I didn’t say anything rude here? Now if I went on to tell a woman here to go make me a sandwich after I said that? Then we’d have a problem, because I ceased being civil. The left has this tendency towards safe space culture, where conversations that make sensitive people uncomfortable are banned. And it’s usually opinions held by the right that are banned. That’s just not right, and likely leads to even more division.
 
rockm said:
Hindu (1.5 billion)/Buddhists (470 million), Jews (17 million), and a billion Muslims--who think Jesus was a Messiah sent to the Children of Israel, which doesn't make Muslims believers in Jesus being resurrected as their savior, as he is seen as the penultimate prophet, not the ultimate one. That would seem to disqualify them in your fevered equation. Dumping all those souls into a burning pit of hell seems like a lot of screaming, pain, as well as a waste for a Merciful God imply being "wrong" about what they believe...
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I said half the world believes Jesus is the Messiah, not that he is God incarnate. And you’re confusing the God of the Bible as being solely merciful, when he is just as well. You seem to be becoming overly emotional in what is really a calm, rational discussion. I would recommend taking a break from the forum for a little bit.
 
Peter.Constantine325 said:
Well that’s why these forums have moderators. It’s just that we can’t shut down conversations entirely. As long as they’re civil and polite, they should be allowed. I should be able to express whatever opinion I have. For example, I should be able to say that men and women are different, that women have a tendency to be submissive and think emotionally. Notice that I didn’t say anything rude here? Now if I went on to tell a woman here to go make me a sandwich after I said that? Then we’d have a problem, because I ceased being civil. The left has this tendency towards safe space culture, where conversations that make sensitive people uncomfortable are banned. And it’s usually opinions held by the right that are banned. That’s just not right, and likely leads to even more division.
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Since you haven't contributed anything remotely related to what this site is about, one might one assume you're not interested in bonsai, so much as interested in being a martyr? You can say whatever you want, what you can't do is expect people not to be a bit irritated that you don't seem so much interested in much else than stirring the pot and acting put-upon.
 
Peter.Constantine325 said:
Well that’s why these forums have moderators. It’s just that we can’t shut down conversations entirely. As long as they’re civil and polite, they should be allowed. I should be able to express whatever opinion I have. For example, I should be able to say that men and women are different, that women have a tendency to be submissive and think emotionally. Notice that I didn’t say anything rude here? Now if I went on to tell a woman here to go make me a sandwich after I said that? Then we’d have a problem, because I ceased being civil. The left has this tendency towards safe space culture, where conversations that make sensitive people uncomfortable are banned. And it’s usually opinions held by the right that are banned. That’s just not right, and likely leads to even more division.
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Notice how you just brought political division into the conversation? That's what I'm talking about.
 
Peter.Constantine325 said:
I said half the world believes Jesus is the Messiah, not that he is God incarnate. And you’re confusing the God of the Bible as being solely merciful, when he is just as well. You seem to be becoming overly emotional in what is really a calm, rational discussion. I would recommend taking a break from the forum for a little bit.
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Condescension is not a Christian value... 😁 or maybe it is for a few
 
rockm said:
Since you haven't contributed anything remotely related to what this site is about, one might one assume you're not interested in bonsai, so much as interested in being a martyr? You can say whatever you want, what you can't do is expect people not to be a bit irritated that you don't seem so much interested in much else than stirring the pot and acting put-upon.
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I stirred the pot merely by being a conservative Catholic. Not because I was rude or aggressive or anything. That’s a strong indicator of safe space culture, and an inclination towards cultural fascism. I have contributed in regards to bonsai, and I have been reading the posts. I’m brand new to the hobby, so it’s not like I have much to say personally. All I really have are questions.
 
Gabler said:
Notice how you just brought political division into the conversation? That's what I'm talking about.
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But division is, again, perfectly fine, as long as the forum is well moderated. I have never said anything rude or offensive. And that’s a reasonable expectation for here. Unless someone sensitive interprets mere disagreement as offensive, or conservative opinions themselves as offensive, which would mean he or she is the problem, and not me.
 
@Gabler, let’s just get back on track to the actual topic of the thread. Which is philosophy, particularly that dealing with God and existentialism. Can you show me objective meaning, purpose and morality without a metaphysical mind as the source and foundation? Again, I’ve only been exposed to philosophy and science through apologetics. But it made me keenly interested in philosophy. So I’m open to learning.
 
I've gotta get back to work, so I don't get fired from my job, but I'll leave you with the recommendation to start with the Greeks, and then move on to the medieval and early Renaissance philosophers tasked with reconciling the heathen teachings of the Greek philosophers with the prevailing Roman Catholic doctrine of the time. From there, look into some Eastern stuff. Save the modern philosophers for the end of your reading list.

The Internet Classics Archive | Euthyphro by Plato

Euthyphro by Plato, part of the Internet Classics Archive
classics.mit.edu
 
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Gabler said:
I've gotta get back to work, so I don't get fired from my job, but I'll leave you with the recommendation to start with the Greeks, and then move on to the medieval philosophers tasked with reconciling the heathen teachings of the Greek philosophers with the prevailing Roman Catholic doctrine of the time. From there, look into some Eastern stuff. Save the modern philosophers for the end of your reading list.

The Internet Classics Archive | Euthyphro by Plato

Euthyphro by Plato, part of the Internet Classics Archive
classics.mit.edu
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I’m asking you personally, utilizing your own knowledge, to show me how it can exist without a metaphysical mind. Your link doesn’t really seem to be relevant at all. Unless you’re referencing the dilemma found therein, which still wouldn’t be relevant to the question at hand. “Is the pious being loved by the gods because it is pious, or is it pious because it is being loved by the gods?” The dilemma itself is a false one, as it doesn’t consider God’s nature as the source of the pious. Which brings me back to the original question, but formulated in a different manner. How can the pious, which can only be thought of by an intelligent human mind, exist outside of such minds on its own, without a metaphysical mind as its source?
 
I. If a metaphysical mind does not exist, then objective meaning, purpose and morality does not exist.
II. A metaphysical mind does not exist.
III. Therefore, objective meaning, purpose and morality does not exist.

This is the dilemma of atheism.
 
Peter.Constantine325 said:
I stirred the pot merely by being a conservative Catholic. Not because I was rude or aggressive or anything. That’s a strong indicator of safe space culture, and an inclination towards cultural fascism. I have contributed in regards to bonsai, and I have been reading the posts. I’m brand new to the hobby, so it’s not like I have much to say personally. All I really have are questions.
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Again with the persecution fantasies..Let me get the nails for your hands... :rolleyes: to make you feel more comfortable up there....(and might benefit from looking up "Passive Aggressive"-- which explains a lot of your deflections about not being rude or aggressive--you stirred the pot by being that--knowing it or not--most passive aggressives aren't aware they are. Boors at parties rarely understand why no one really wants to talk with them...and tend to blame everyone else...If everyone else is the problem, maybe the problem is YOU )

Point me to the posts where you contribute something of value (or even ask) about the topic of this entire forum...I'll wait...



Back so soon? If you're new to the hobby, post a photo of one of your trees, or of something REMOTELY about bonsai...Again I'll wait.

Newbies always have something they want to ask or talk about. You don't seem to want to talk about much except how many angels can balance on the head of a pin and other tail-chasing nonsense.

C'mon what are you scared of? Post a tree, ask a bonsai question, or are you just here to be superior sporting a weird persecution complex?
 
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rockm said:
Again with the persecution fantasies..Let me get the nails for your hands... :rolleyes: to make you feel more comfortable up there....(and might benefit from looking up "Passive Aggressive"-- which explains a lot of your deflections about not being rude or aggressive--you stirred the pot by being that--knowing it or not--most passive aggressives aren't aware they are. Boors at parties rarely understand why no one really wants to talk with them...and tend to blame everyone else...If everyone else is the problem, maybe the problem is YOU )

Point me to the posts where you contribute something of value (or even ask) about what the topic of this entire forum...I'll wait...



Back so soon? If you're new to the hobby, post a photo of one of your trees, or of something REMOTELY about bonsai...Again I'll wait.

Newbies always have something they want to ask or talk about. You don't seem to want to talk about much except how many angels can balance on the head of a pin and other tail-chasing nonsense.

C'mon what are you scared of? Post a tree, ask a bonsai question, or are you just here to be superior sporting a weird persecution complex?
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Obviously you have been deeply triggered. I’m sorry you don’t have the capacity to accept that contrary views exist without becoming aggressive and offended. You do realize this thread is about philosophy and that existentialism and God were the main topics, yes? Why don’t you try contributing to the thread instead of trying to bully me. I am in no way obligated to post about bonsai, just be interested in it at the least, and practice it at the most. If you went to my profile, you’d see that I have a picture album dedicated to my grow tent for tropical bonsai. I posted a picture of my first one, and more are coming next month. Why don’t you practice the art of mindfulness, recognize the error of your ways, and comment something nice about my first ficus.
 
Peter.Constantine325 said:
Obviously you have been deeply triggered. I’m sorry you don’t have the capacity to accept that contrary views exist without becoming aggressive and offended. You do realize this thread is about philosophy and that existentialism and God were the main topics, yes? Why don’t you try contributing to the thread instead of trying to bully me. I am in no way obligated to post about bonsai, just be interested in it at the least, and practice it at the most. If you went to my profile, you’d see that I have a picture album dedicated to my grow tent for tropical bonsai. I posted a picture of my first one, and more are coming next month. Why don’t you practice the art of mindfulness, recognize the error of your ways, and comment something nice about my first ficus.
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Yeah, it's me... :rolleyes:
 
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