Peter Warren on Soil Health.

[fredman]

This is music to my ears, and hopefully to many others. Exactly the reason I threw my chemical fertilizers away some years ago. The more chemicals is thrown at a tree, the more vulnerable it becomes to stresses, pests and deseases.
Anyway...the first two minutes has no sound. Enjoy

 

[Anthony]

Actually, if you stick to 6 to 8 N - less than 2 P , 2 K [ similiar to the fermented oil
seed cakes ] the sun / growth remains tough, and not too tasty to bugs etc.

The problem is soft green tasty shoots.

Possibly, also bare - rooting with every re-pot.
Good Day
Anthony

 

[cmeg1]

I need to watch the whole thing.I like he mentions mature compact growth......trees are not weakened in this state.Lots of natiral plant elements are produced when a plant is not pushing growth.Plant elements that actually invigorate rooting and root health....something about the actual ability to assimilate phospherous occurs when anplant is not growing.......growing wastes carbs........can make weak if lots of luxery nitrogen.
There is definately a balance.....Considering mature compact growth as he mentions.
Trees in nature...where is the nitrogen from?
Something happens in large tap roots I think.
I think we need to research why trees in nature are completely robust growing in water clay sand etc.
They are producing energy from masses of leaves photosynthesizing........
I personally believe ,anything that boosts photosynthesis of leaves is a plus plus++
Its in a trees genetics to live that way.
My seedlings grow more vigorously at the start when I only gradually increase nitrogen.....there is definately a balance.The leaves need to have the time to do what they have done for eons.........make enrgy.........in can be over done with the N and weak growth and cell walls and bug vulnerable...low backbudding next season and everything.
I think there is a lot to be said about how xperianced or all the articles of Japanese magazines seem to promote a very patient approach of say for instance only one defoliation then let flush and rest...Obviously you can defoliate theee times,but it does not always produce desired results....in some cases backbudding occurs further and further from the branch start instead of closer and closer.......they rest and build energy....very piwerful concept in my eyes.

 

[cmeg1]

Look at these ..little 6 mnth old zelkova....the foliage was completely lush ans barely grew by just cutting N to very low and giving co2 and photosythesis boosting suppliments. It could of stayed that way all season except for the wire I could not get to.
Backbudding on 1” branches...stage completely set...........so this is the kind of mature state of conpact growth he mentions in the beginnig .
This plant completely stopped shoot extension and grew very , very strong.Could of stayed like this all season without shoot extension.
When I realized power of photosythesis.

 

[cmeg1]

extreemely interesting read that I need to finish

https://www.warnell.uga.edu/sites/default/files/publications/Nitrogen%20%26%20Trees%20Pub%2012-1_0.pdf

 

[Forsoothe!]

All of the good critters that keep the balance in the biome are already present in garden topsoil. Ashes to ashes expresses a greater understanding of the cycle of life, far beyond the life cycle of just mankind, and burying garbage in gardens has been practiced for eons. Adding animal manure and excluding human wastes has also been SOP for centuries and is on its face evidence of the understanding that there existed good constituents that were to be nurtured in soil, and bad constituents to be precluded from the garden. For centuries, all across the world. Farmers have been improving good soil, not sifting rocks and starting from scratch.

 

[cmeg1]

A couple tidbits I copied from above article.Amino acids play a great role.I mainly add calcium boosting ones,but am going to add the rest also for now on.


:::::Whole tree reactions to significantly increased nitrogen levels:
— Increased shoot size.
— More foliage growth stimulated.
— Photosynthesis & stomates sensitive to water stress.
— Lengthened growing season.
— Increased amino-nitrogen content.
— Decreased starch in whole tree.
— Increased pest effectiveness.
— Decreased defensive materials produced.
— Carbon allocation to fine roots delayed.
— Decreased carbon allocation to the roots.
— Root carbon storage reduced.
— Root sugar concentrations increase.
— Decreased root reactivity to damage and stress.
— Poorer cold tolerance in root system.
— Encourages starch use, not photosynthesis increase






::::::::Whole tree reactions to nitrogen shortages:
— Decreased overall growth of tree.
— Increased total storage reserves.
— More sulfur containing proteins made.
— More fine root production.
— Increased root weights.
— More carbon allocated to fine roots.
— Shortened time span of fine root growth.
— Earlier seasonal carbon storage in roots.

 

[Anthony]

"We grow our Bonsai for Beauty, not lumber or produce "

After a trunk thicken, how much fertiliser do you need for branchlets ?

 

[Anthony]

@cmeg1 ,

testing trunk thickening, we added on the use of a colander
to speed up removal from the growing zone and the 4 to 6 branches
of the Design.
Now we keep checking for time to get to the preferred 3 inch trunk on
different natives.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

Go to the woods, take a bucket and a shovel, dig a hand full of soil from every environment, water the bucket, let it rest for 2 days.
Make a tea you sprinkle all over your plants. Free inoculum with more biodiversity than your average field.

Been doing so for a decade. I have 40+ different species of fruiting fungi in the garden soil, at least 4 edible ones like Morells. No more mildew since 2017. No need to treat against needlecast. Fungal outbreaks still happen, they spike and die down within a week.

But I have to keep the system alive, so it takes some management.

@Forsoothe! The Japanese do bokashi and they do use human waste for the rice fields, with success!

 

[sorce]

Nice.

Sorce

 

[leatherback]

@Forsoothe! The Japanese do bokashi and they do use human waste for the rice fields, with success!

I shit on your trees!

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

I shit on your trees!

Ah, so that was you?! I was wondering where that smell and footprints came from. Make sure you hit the grape vine next time, it could use a little of that spice melange.

 

[Lars Grimm]

Go to the woods, take a bucket and a shovel, dig a hand full of soil from every environment, water the bucket, let it rest for 2 days.
Make a tea you sprinkle all over your plants. Free inoculum with more biodiversity than your average field.

Been doing so for a decade. I have 40+ different species of fruiting fungi in the garden soil, at least 4 edible ones like Morells. No more mildew since 2017. No need to treat against needlecast. Fungal outbreaks still happen, they spike and die down within a week.

But I have to keep the system alive, so it takes some management.

@Forsoothe! The Japanese do bokashi and they do use human waste for the rice fields, with success!

How do you make a tea from this? Is it just water that drains out of the bucket?

 

[fredman]

When I read these 3 books, it all came together for me on how the symbiotic relationship works. It opened up a whole new approach to bonsai for me...make no mistake, it's also a challenge.

Beautifully written in layman's terms.
@Lars Grimm @Wires_Guy_wires there's a whole chapter dedicated to compost/worm teas...it's not as straight forward as we think, to make it (the right way) so microbes and fungi are actually captured in the substance.

 

[fredman]

The bottom line about chemical fertilizer (especially the stronger ones) is it kills or sends the 'friendly' microbes and fungi into hibernation. It definitely disrupts the microbial system in the soil. When life is depleted in the pot, the first ones to colonize the pot (and the tree as a consequence) then, is the baddies...the pathogens.
Then the cycle starts. We have a bad fungi, so we spray fungicide, then more arrives, and we spray more fungicide...crazy !
We have to find a way so the life in the pot contains it's own balance...similar to what happens in the ground.

 

[Forsoothe!]

Go to the woods, take a bucket and a shovel, dig a hand full of soil from every environment, water the bucket, let it rest for 2 days.
Make a tea you sprinkle all over your plants. Free inoculum with more biodiversity than your average field.

Been doing so for a decade. I have 40+ different species of fruiting fungi in the garden soil, at least 4 edible ones like Morells. No more mildew since 2017. No need to treat against needlecast. Fungal outbreaks still happen, they spike and die down within a week.

But I have to keep the system alive, so it takes some management.

@Forsoothe! The Japanese do bokashi and they do use human waste for the rice fields, with success!

They may have used human wastes in the past, as the Koreans did up into the 1950's or so with their Honey Pots, but I don't think anyone does today. Human wastes carry human pathogens that need to be kept carefully away from humans.

 

[fredman]

When I read these 3 books, it all came together for me on how the symbiotic relationship works. It opened up a whole new approach to bonsai for me...make no mistake, it's also a challenge.
View attachment 315562
Beautifully written in layman's terms.
@Lars Grimm @Wires_Guy_wires there's a whole chapter dedicated to compost/worm teas...it's not as straight forward as we think, to make it (the right way) so microbes and fungi are actually captured in the substance.

In the books, there is photos of microbes and fungi actually killing pathogens. That only more enforced my thinking...why use a chemical that's capable of killing everything in the pot, if they (the microbes and fungi) are perfectly capable of taking out only the ones that causes us troubles ?

 

[sorce]

I hate the very word "chemical".

It's nice to know that the "feeling" I been feeling is real, that health can win if we let it. That using fish as a "fungicide" has merit.

Man cannot win over Earth.

We must use Her more smartly!

This is that smart.

Sorce

 

[fredman]

I hate the very word "chemical".

I call it by the name. No more sugar coating and romanticizing it from me. I use any chemical ONLY if I REALLY have to. It has it's place, but it should be used intelligently.
The wife was diagnosed with arthritis. Being a ex pharmacist she said she don't want to go the chemical medicine way. She found a "alternative medicine" woman and she analized and tested her to see how her body functions. Loooong story short...She told her to stay away from certain foods and to eat more raw vegetable etc..
Few months later she analized her again and found pesticides in her...that was setting back her treatment. Turns out it came from the store bought vegetables we've been grazing on
That's when I started on my organic journey. What I don't grow myself, I get from the organic shop.
She's healed today. Same woman even got my mentally ill daughter back to the best i've seen her in 15 years. Absolutely no medication.
No Brotha...I hate chemicals.