pellets how to use them for bonsai?

[ward0]

Hello,

I have been reading alot about fertilizers and i think i'm going Miracle grow or Osmocote.

Osmocote is 14-13-13
Miracle Grow is 18-9-11

So i have 2 questions :

1) witch one should i pick? I will put my trees in training pots to grow trunk. they will be placed outdoors in the summer and i can give them water daily.

2) On the package is written : food for 6 months .. How do i see that for bonsai trees? Many people on the internet write that they use water and mix the pellets into it. The only problem i'm thinking of that method is that i will lose alot of water and therefor my trees will not get alot of fertilizer .. Should i mix into 1L of water 1/2 teaspoon and give that water when needid? or spray some pellets near the roots and sprankle with water? And wait until the pellets are gone?

These might be beginner questions ( no doubt ) , but everyone has to do it for the first time

Thanks for the advice in advance,

Ps : i tried to find information in english but the site i can buy it from is only in dutch You could use google translate.

http://www.avevewinkels.be/nl/tuin/...bstral-osmocote-voeding-voor-alle-tuinplanten

http://www.avevewinkels.be/nl/tuin/slim-tuinieren/producten/miracle-grow-shake-and-feed-universeel

 

[sorce]

Hey Ward0,
I never heard of pellets mixed with water. At least not for bonsai. Not that it can't be done.....

I use more than recommended. Just right on top.

Also, I figure it lasts 6 months in a regular soil pot, or the ground, but with bonsai watered daily or more, in inorganic loose soil, you might only get 3 months, or less.

I got liquid miracle grow, cactus miracle grow, garden tone organic, Vigoro 16-8-4 pellets, and I'm trying to get MORE! I'm riding the more is better train this year.

Sorce

 

[ward0]

Hey Ward0,
I never heard of pellets mixed with water. At least not for bonsai. Not that it can't be done.....

I use more than recommended. Just right on top.

Also, I figure it lasts 6 months in a regular soil pot, or the ground, but with bonsai watered daily or more, in inorganic loose soil, you might only get 3 months, or less.

I got liquid miracle grow, cactus miracle grow, garden tone organic, Vigoro 16-8-4 pellets, and I'm trying to get MORE! I'm riding the more is better train this year.

Sorce

Hello Sorce,

Thanks for your feedback.

So whats your weekly fertilizing then? liquid miracle grow? On top of the pellets? Or just the pellets and nothing else. This is a bit confusing for me still.

 

[sorce]

It was only a couple of seasons ago I began using Walter Palls method.
Liquid only, in huge doses. You can find all the details on the net. Walter Pall on modern soil.

This fall, I pelleted all my tropicals to like a 10x recommended dose, and they've been growing greaT since.

In spring, I will use pellets on top, some tea bags(or other containment) of organic for the Biotone (beneficial microorganisms), and will probably water with liquid ferts once a week or so.

One thing I'm finding, is that the ability of the soil to aid in the trees use of fert is as important as the fert itself. Hence the microorganisms.
Trace minerals are key too, so I May find something with them too, Schultz's liquid maybe as I have used it before.

Free draining soil and watering heavy to flush is a must, or you will get wicked salt buildup.

Sorce

Ps search some fert threads and you will find a lot of info. Tailor yourself a plan that works for you, your schedule, climate, trees, watering, soil, and sanity, or lack there of!

 

[ward0]

Thanks for the tips.

For others i found this :

watched the whole video , mind opening .. Also from you ofcourse Sorce.

 

[jk_lewis]

Personally, I would NEVER use timed-release Osmocoat for my bonsai. With Osmocoat you have absolutely NO control over when it releases its doses of fertilizer or how much it releases at any given time. Anyone who relies on it is not trying to control how their trees grow; they just want bushiness -- which is NOT want we want in bonsai. Walter's fertilizer regime is fine and is essentially what I do (though I fertilize a lot less often), or follow Brent Walston's advice found on www.evergreengardenworks.com in his "Articles" pages.

 

[KennedyMarx]

The amount of fertilizer and timing of doses are dependent on the makeup of the soil. A heavily organic soil mix won't need as much fertilizer as a completely inorganic mix of aggregates that routinely gets flushed with water. Plus you have to consider what kind of growth you are going for. For trunk growth and building branches a heavy fertilizer regimen is great but you probably don't want those huge innernodes when trying to refine the tree.

 

[sorce]

I am in a growout stage where control isn't necessary .

I should've mentioned that.

JKL's advice is sound!

This is where personal tailorization comes into play!

Sorce

 

[Maros]

I use Osmocete for few years. Combined with chicken granules, guano granules, and liquid fertilizer as well. When you are busy during the season, you sometimes forget to regularly feed your trees. For this moments I'm happy that trees have feed from Osmocote whenever it rains or I water my trees. I use Osmocote with highest possible nitrogen content and shortest release time(do not remember exact product name). I add it every time I re-pot my tree and than approximately 2 times a year.

 

[jk_lewis]

I am in a growout stage where control isn't necessary .

Control is ALWAYS necessary. Lots of it. Otherwise you'll never get there!

 

[ward0]

I use Osmocete for few years. Combined with chicken granules, guano granules, and liquid fertilizer as well. When you are busy during the season, you sometimes forget to regularly feed your trees. For this moments I'm happy that trees have feed from Osmocote whenever it rains or I water my trees. I use Osmocote with highest possible nitrogen content and shortest release time(do not remember exact product name). I add it every time I re-pot my tree and than approximately 2 times a year.

Thanks for your reply , if you could give the product name i would be greatful

The amount of fertilizer and timing of doses are dependent on the makeup of the soil. A heavily organic soil mix won't need as much fertilizer as a completely inorganic mix of aggregates that routinely gets flushed with water. Plus you have to consider what kind of growth you are going for. For trunk growth and building branches a heavy fertilizer regimen is great but you probably don't want those huge innernodes when trying to refine the tree.

I'm going 50% lava / 50% pumice .. so it aint organic at all I will flush with water daily to remove the salt.

Personally, I would NEVER use timed-release Osmocoat for my bonsai. With Osmocoat you have absolutely NO control over when it releases its doses of fertilizer or how much it releases at any given time. Anyone who relies on it is not trying to control how their trees grow; they just want bushiness -- which is NOT want we want in bonsai. Walter's fertilizer regime is fine and is essentially what I do (though I fertilize a lot less often), or follow Brent Walston's advice found on www.evergreengardenworks.com in his "Articles" pages.

People use , other people don't .. depends on the soil you use i guess. I want to thicken my trunk and general growth.

The problem is that i don't know how to apply pellets .. I mean they last for months .. how to know when to replace them. With liquid you can just add every couple days .. If anyone could give advice on that one.

 

[KennedyMarx]

Some pellets are filled with liquid and break down over time releasing the liquid fertilizer inside. Those are very dependent on temperature so they may be depleted quickly in the hot months. Some pellets are like little rocks. I would use follow the instructions on the packaging if using organic soil. Inorganic could use more considering the watering you'll be doing.

 

[Smoke]

Free draining soil and watering heavy to flush is a must, or you will get wicked salt buildup.

Sorce

In thirty years of bonsai I have never known about how one tells when the salt has built up. Can you share how you determine this?

 

[crust]

In thirty years of bonsai I have never known about how one tells when the salt has built up. Can you share how you determine this?

First, early in the morn, creep out in the gloaming and taste it, if it tastes salty it is. Next, just to be sure, take a bit and rub it in your eye, if it stings it is too salty. Lastly, for further confirmation, I wait until a frosty morning when the driveway is glare ice (this probably never happens at your house) and I pull the plant out, toss it aside and then sprinkle the soil on the driveway--if the ice melts then the stuff is too salty. This is how I have checked on this pesky worry for over thirty years.

 

[Maros]

Thanks for your reply , if you could give the product name i would be greatful

Name is Osmocote Exact Standard 3 – 4M. According to my experience empty pellets does not decompose quickly. I takes months after they are already empty and still you keep seeing them in the substrate. Taking into consideration aggressive watering regime, in mostly inorganic substrate mix I generally use, I'm adding new pellets already after 2 months or so. But with right substrate mix you do not have to be afraid of over-fertilizing with such fertilizer type, nor salt build up, nor over watering trees. Exactly like WP is saying in the video.

 

[sorce]

In thirty years of bonsai I have never known about how one tells when the salt has built up. Can you share how you determine this?

This guy first .
Then this guy.

I think Crust posted the correct answer.

I think you are indicating it may be calcium not salt.

All I know, I've seen these trees in bonsai pots at nurseries with white bases. And it's ugly. Be it salt, calcium, or anything else!

If it is only for funny, I grab a tanuki and a tree I think has salt built up. Lick one ball, the trees base, then the other ball. If they all taste the same, salt has built up! If you excite the tanuki, run like hell. !

Sorce

 

[sorce]

Control is ALWAYS necessary. Lots of it. Otherwise you'll never get there!

My "there" , is taking elm toothpicks to useful sizes.
I guess I do control the massive amounts of fertilizer I dump on them, but only not to spill it on the floor!

Sorce

 

[sorce]

you probably don't want those huge innernodes when trying to refine the tree.

I don't know if this is species specific.
But the Benjamin's I crazy dosed with 16-8-4 have the tightest internodes yet.

I believe proper lighting(sunning) keeps short internodes.
It makes sense that a search for Sun will make a tree throw far leaves.

If the light is there they won't waste energy "moving down the block to build another food factory". They build it right next to the last one!

Trees do everything for a reason.
They are way smarter than we imagine. Very efficient in their mission.

Sorce

 

[sorce]

The problem is that i don't know how to apply pellets .. I mean they last for months .. how to know when to replace them. With liquid you can just add every couple days .. If anyone could give advice on that one.

That is what JKL is getting at.....you really can't know for sure!
Trial and error?
With your mix you could go organic.

Sorce

 

[sorce]

(The worm can is fully open)