Superfly BonsaiMax Pellets Fertilizer?

[roberthu]

Anyone have experience can share their experience? I know organic fertilizers all work in similar ways. I am mostly curious about if it attracts critters, does it smell really bad, or does it break down quickly (within a week-ish).

I am currently using Holly Tone and cotton seed meal and they both attracts small animals and I constantly see bags on the ground. Jonas at Bonsai Tonight mentioned similar experience and he stopped using bags for that reason. My issue with not using bags is the soil surface gets clogged too quickly and raking the surface is something I don't have time to do on a weekly basis. So I want to stick with pellets or powder in bags.

Here is the link to the fertilizer: https://www.superflybonsai.com/coll...oducts/professional-bonsai-fertilizer-pellets

Thanks.

 

[Kanorin]

I've used the "push" version for pre-bonsai (12-4-5) from them and I did have racoons visiting (and caught on camera), tipping some smaller pots, and raking through the substrate to at least smell the fertilizer. I assume they might have eaten some of it, but they must not have loved it because they only seemed to hit a handful of pots and then ignore the rest <shrug>. Maybe it was only an OK-tasting food to them? It probably broke down over the course of about 4-6 weeks.

I've since switched to using mainly liquid fertilizers, experimenting with cottonseed meal (also seems to attract the interest of racoons, but not too often), and also tried this "omakase" fertilizer, which the racoons seem to have no interest in. Hope that helps!

 

[roberthu]

I've used the "push" version for pre-bonsai (12-4-5) from them and I did have racoons visiting (and caught on camera), tipping some smaller pots, and raking through the substrate to at least smell the fertilizer. I assume they might have eaten some of it, but they must not have loved it because they only seemed to hit a handful of pots and then ignore the rest <shrug>. Maybe it was only an OK-tasting food to them? It probably broke down over the course of about 4-6 weeks.

I've since switched to using mainly liquid fertilizers, experimenting with cottonseed meal (also seems to attract the interest of racoons, but not too often), and also tried this "omakase" fertilizer, which the racoons seem to have no interest in. Hope that helps!

Ah the racoons.... I have had the similar experience where they flip a few pots but not the others. I first thought it was the fish emulsion.

Thank you for sharing! I may give it a shot when Superfly has another sale event.

 

[pandacular]

I don't have any experience with this fertilizer, but I have been using other pelletized fertilizers in small cages and had a good experience. Jonas sells them, but i'm not sure if that's the same as an endorsement.

Fertilizer Baskets with Lids

Plastic fertilizer baskets with lids for pelleted fertilizers. Popular choice for Biogold and Omakase fertilizers. Size: Small (1.5" diameter); Large (2" diameter) Made in Japan

store.bonsaitonight.com

 

[roberthu]

I don't have any experience with this fertilizer, but I have been using other pelletized fertilizers in small cages and had a good experience. Jonas sells them, but i'm not sure if that's the same as an endorsement.

Fertilizer Baskets with Lids

Plastic fertilizer baskets with lids for pelleted fertilizers. Popular choice for Biogold and Omakase fertilizers. Size: Small (1.5" diameter); Large (2" diameter) Made in Japan

store.bonsaitonight.com

I have been using the covers with good results. But they don’t really solve the powder clogging up soil issue

 

[pandacular]

I don't really think that that is avoidable with organic fertilizer.

 

[roberthu]

I don't really think that that is avoidable with organic fertilizer.

Agreed. Just trying to hold for as long as possible

 

[Glaucus]

Any organic fertilizer pellet applied to the surface will attract critters. A basket or teabag won't help prevent this.

And the 12-4-5 means that it probably has mineral (aka chemical) component to it. Blood meal and feather meal are 12% nitrogen and 0% everything else. And those are the highest N percentage organic fertilizers.
There's just no way to mix these organic waste products and come to 12-4-5.
If they have fish or blood meal, you can imagine it will attract critters even more. And those allow for just a bit of mineral fertilizer to be added to reach 12-4-5. Easy to take one, add some potassium phosphate, and potassium nitrate, and you can advertise it as 12-4-5.
Theoretically, there's some rocks you could harvest and that could be processed so they become highly soluble. But that kinda creates a mineral aka chemical fertilizer. But usually the elements in rock dust are not bioavailable aka water soluble.
Which may also make it quick release. Otherwise, only acidic soils can result in slow release of a lot of K from a non-artificial fertilizer containing high K rock dust.

You can mix a high N product with bone meal to get most N and P values, but there is no organic source similarly high in K.
But usually rock dust will only very slowly release P and trace metal ions, no K.

NPK Fertilizer, Organic Fertilizers

An organic npk fertilizer is a broad-spectrum organic fertilizer that supplies balanced, slow-release nutrients—Nitrogen (N), Phosphorous (P), and Potassium (K)—to your vegetable garden.

www.grow-it-organically.com

ORGANIC FARMING :: Manures

 

[rockm]

I use BioGold original in tea bags. It's organic and very good stuff. Doesn't draw maggots or rodents. You can get it on Amazon in various bag sizes.

Biogold (tact, Inc.) Official Global Website

 

[roberthu]

Any organic fertilizer pellet applied to the surface will attract critters. A basket or teabag won't help prevent this.

And the 12-4-5 means that it probably has mineral (aka chemical) component to it. Blood meal and feather meal are 12% nitrogen and 0% everything else. And those are the highest N percentage organic fertilizers.
There's just no way to mix these organic waste products and come to 12-4-5.
If they have fish or blood meal, you can imagine it will attract critters even more. And those allow for just a bit of mineral fertilizer to be added to reach 12-4-5. Easy to take one, add some potassium phosphate, and potassium nitrate, and you can advertise it as 12-4-5.
Theoretically, there's some rocks you could harvest and that could be processed so they become highly soluble. But that kinda creates a mineral aka chemical fertilizer. But usually the elements in rock dust are not bioavailable aka water soluble.
Which may also make it quick release. Otherwise, only acidic soils can result in slow release of a lot of K from a non-artificial fertilizer containing high K rock dust.

You can mix a high N product with bone meal to get most N and P values, but there is no organic source similarly high in K.
But usually rock dust will only very slowly release P and trace metal ions, no K.

NPK Fertilizer, Organic Fertilizers

An organic npk fertilizer is a broad-spectrum organic fertilizer that supplies balanced, slow-release nutrients—Nitrogen (N), Phosphorous (P), and Potassium (K)—to your vegetable garden.

www.grow-it-organically.com

ORGANIC FARMING :: Manures

That's a good point about 12 N basically means some chemicals have been added. I never thought it that way.

 

[roberthu]

I use BioGold original in tea bags. It's organic and very good stuff. Doesn't draw maggots or rodents. You can get it on Amazon in various bag sizes.

Biogold (tact, Inc.) Official Global Website

I only use BioGold on more refined trees because of the price point... I do like everything about it besides the price...

 

[rockm]

I only use BioGold on more refined trees because of the price point... I do like everything about it besides the price...

Guess I don't really understand, then. Organics are a very inefficient method to fertilize less refined trees...I use liquid ferts on developing trees.

 

[roberthu]

Guess I don't really understand, then. Organics are a very inefficient method to fertilize less refined trees...I use liquid ferts on developing trees.

I use liquid in every watering too. I also want to cultivate microbe activity in the soil by using organics. Maybe I am asking for too much?

 

[rockm]

I use liquid in every watering too. I also want to cultivate microbe activity in the soil by using organics. Maybe I am asking for too much?

I use liquid ferts every week, combined with the existing application of biogold on the soil surface. I get myc on many of my trees, but I got that without organics. Depends on whether the soil itself is "friendly" to microbes--the looser and stonier the soil, the less hospitable it is. Some organic content IN the soil (sifted mulch, etc.) help more than organic ferts in establishing microbe colonies.

 

[Glaucus]

Liquid fertilizer could theoretically be an organic fertilizer, but it is merely already dissolved mineral fertilizer. It would be much cheaper to buy it as a solid.
There's a huge industry where they dissolve mineral fertilizer in water, put it in a consumer sized bottle, stick a fancy label on it, and sell it for 50 times the price.
Especially with cannabis there's a crazy market. Very much alike to whey protein powder in fitness.

I see the site of this specific product literally says that chemical fertilizer will kill soil microbes. Just not true. Chemical fertilizers also feed microbes in the soil, just a bit less.
And most bonsai people deliberately avoid using soil but instead use substrate. So in that case, using mineral (chemical) fertilizer makes a lot of sense.
Probably best to use both, but use both in moderation. Especially for trees in refinement.

It is just hard to find an organic fertilizer that can sit on the bonsai substrate and remain there intact. Almost all organic fertilizer products are specifically designed to fall apart after becoming wet.
Biogold as a bonsai product seems to be an exception. But the price is outrageous considering the ingredients are mostly waste products.

 

[roberthu]

Liquid fertilizer could theoretically be an organic fertilizer, but it is merely already dissolved mineral fertilizer. It would be much cheaper to buy it as a solid.
There's a huge industry where they dissolve mineral fertilizer in water, put it in a consumer sized bottle, stick a fancy label on it, and sell it for 50 times the price.
Especially with cannabis there's a crazy market. Very much alike to whey protein powder in fitness.

I see the site of this specific product literally says that chemical fertilizer will kill soil microbes. Just not true. Chemical fertilizers also feed microbes in the soil, just a bit less.
And most bonsai people deliberately avoid using soil but instead use substrate. So in that case, using mineral (chemical) fertilizer makes a lot of sense.
Probably best to use both, but use both in moderation. Especially for trees in refinement.

It is just hard to find an organic fertilizer that can sit on the bonsai substrate and remain there intact. Almost all organic fertilizer products are specifically designed to fall apart after becoming wet.
Biogold as a bonsai product seems to be an exception. But the price is outrageous considering the ingredients are mostly waste products.

I guess there are still a lot of unknown in fertilizing. On one hand people like Ryan Neil says chemicals kill microbe activity so you need organics to promote healthy soil environment, on the other hand he also promotes inorganic mixes like APL. I feel a mix between inorganic and organic is the way to go, it's just how do you mix it.

 

[Glaucus]

What people that say this usually mean is that chemical fertilizer can change soil microbe types or reduce microbe diversity. And this comes usually from research on food crop mono-cultures where they fertilize at the rate that gives maximum short term yields.
Drawing from that that chemical fertilizer just outright kills microbes or even 'sterilizes the soil' is simply false. What role microbes play in akadama, lava, pumice or clay-based bonsai substrate mixes is a huge unknown.

If you grow in soil, then feeding the soil with organic fertilizer and have the soil feed the plants vibes very well with me. But substrate is not soil. So this no-till organic gardening that says 'chemical fertilizers kill microbes' trend cannot really be applied to bonsai in this way, even if they have a lot of merit. Working with biology rather than against it of course is very good. And the practice of putting organic Biogold fertilizer balls on bonsai substrate has worked very well. But it is a special system compared to those that are traditionally studied.

 

[roberthu]

What people that say this usually mean is that chemical fertilizer can change soil microbe types or reduce microbe diversity. And this comes usually from research on food crop mono-cultures where they fertilize at the rate that gives maximum short term yields.
Drawing from that that chemical fertilizer just outright kills microbes or even 'sterilizes the soil' is simply false. What role microbes play in akadama, lava, pumice or clay-based bonsai substrate mixes is a huge unknown.

If you grow in soil, then feeding the soil with organic fertilizer and have the soil feed the plants vibes very well with me. But substrate is not soil. So this no-till organic gardening that says 'chemical fertilizers kill microbes' trend cannot really be applied to bonsai in this way, even if they have a lot of merit. Working with biology rather than against it of course is very good. And the practice of putting organic Biogold fertilizer balls on bonsai substrate has worked very well. But it is a special system compared to those that are traditionally studied.

This is actually a point Ryan keeps bringing up. Maybe he will change his opinion in the future.