Pardon me If someone ELSE already posted this.

[BrierPatch]

I'm glad he was caught! It doesn't say if all the tree's were returned but I'm assuming at least some were. Unfortunately with the court system these days he will probably do little time if any except for the gun charge and that's still a big maybe.

 

[HorseloverFat]

I'm glad he was caught! It doesn't say if all the tree's were returned but I'm assuming at least some were. Unfortunately with the court system these days he will probably do little time if any except for the gun charge and that's still a big maybe.

Well.. the time done has to be reflective of the crime.. proportional...

How much Jail/prison time (extra points if you can tell me the difference WITHOUT searching in ) do you think is fair? ( NOT CONSIDERING that "WE just love Bonsai and are PERSONALLY hurt")

The equivalent... would be stealing a few armloads of paintings from an art museum. So how much is "right"..?

Also states handle these situations differently..

HERE, if all parties pressed charges... the dude has felony priors (I believe).

He'd sit 20-24 months here. About 4-5 years of supervision afterwards. That's a fairly good "stretch".

What's YOUR longest "stay"?

 

[Eckhoffw]

Well.. the time done has to be reflective of the crime.. proportional...

How much Jail/prison time (extra points if you can tell me the difference WITHOUT searching in ) do you think is fair? ( NOT CONSIDERING that "WE just love Bonsai and are PERSONALLY hurt")

The equivalent... would be stealing a few armloads of paintings from an art museum. So how much is "right"..?

Also states handle these situations differently..

HERE, if all parties pressed charges... the dude has felony priors (I believe).

He'd sit 20-24 months here. About 4-5 years of supervision afterwards. That's a fairly good "stretch".

What's YOUR longest "stay"?

Did a week of hard detention after being caught peeing in a school window well in 7th grade.

 

[ShadyStump]

Did a week of hard detention after being caught peeing in a school window well in 7th grade.

Wow, how old are you?
Now days you'd be charged as a sex offender and not allowed to be around anyone under 18 until you were 18.

 

[BrierPatch]

Well.. the time done has to be reflective of the crime.. proportional...

How much Jail/prison time (extra points if you can tell me the difference WITHOUT searching in ) do you think is fair? ( NOT CONSIDERING that "WE just love Bonsai and are PERSONALLY hurt")

The equivalent... would be stealing a few armloads of paintings from an art museum. So how much is "right"..?

Also states handle these situations differently..

HERE, if all parties pressed charges... the dude has felony priors (I believe).

He'd sit 20-24 months here. About 4-5 years of supervision afterwards. That's a fairly good "stretch".

What's YOUR longest "stay"?

Well I would say (and this is just me) a Mandatory 5 year "prison" term for the gun charge alone if that was an illegal firearm, 10 if felon with a firearm. Probably 2-3 years for the thefts.
And I do know the difference between "Jail/prison" Jail would be your cities local detention facility (which here is a max of 2 years). Prison is a minimum/maximum longer term detention facility which is also managed by a different level of government.

As for my longest stay, it's "0" days and I intend to keep it that way.

 

[HorseloverFat]

Well I would say (and this is just me) a Mandatory 5 year "prison" term for the gun charge alone if that was an illegal firearm, 10 if felon with a firearm. Probably 2-3 years for the thefts.
And I do know the difference between "Jail/prison" Jail would be your cities local detention facility (which here is a max of 2 years). Prison is a minimum/maximum longer term detention facility which is also managed by a different level of government.

As for my longest stay, it's "0" days and I intend to keep it that way.

Cool! do you think that 2-3 years is Adequate?..

My reply was in relation to "not end up serving much time" comment.



There's also alot of intentional deviation between Max Sentences.. and realistic sentencing.

 

[rockm]

Entirely speculative, BUT The suspect's identity suggests to me that the trees that were allegedly stolen could have been destined to be sold into the local Chinese community. Given the other charge of catalytic converter theft, this guy sounds like a professional, opportunistic thief looking to turn a quick buck. This is NOT a suggestion that any buyers were criminals, or were involved in the thefts. Says to me the alleged thief had a viable, unsuspecting market for the trees he was taking.

The trees wouldn't be known to buyers in that community and wouldn't turn up in local bonsai circles.

As for prison time, who knows--depends on valuation of the trees and the prosecution's ability to prove the thefts meet felony charges.

 

[Eckhoffw]

You can do it!
Not really though

 

[ShadyStump]

Entirely speculative, BUT The suspect's identity suggests to me that the trees that were allegedly stolen could have been destined to be sold into the local Chinese community. Given the other charge of catalytic converter theft, this guy sounds like a professional, opportunistic thief looking to turn a quick buck. This is NOT a suggestion that any buyers were criminals, or were involved in the thefts. Says to me the alleged thief had a viable, unsuspecting market for the trees he was taking.

The trees wouldn't be known to buyers in that community and wouldn't turn up in local bonsai circles.

As for prison time, who knows--depends on valuation of the trees and the prosecution's ability to prove the thefts meet felony charges.

If he did know potential buyers in the local Asian community, something like that is very possible, but includes a greater risk of the tree being spotted and identified. He would've been better off moving them out of town.
This brings us back to the notion of organized crime being involved. The fact that he had the first tree for a while, then went back for another, suggests to me that he didn't have anything lined up, but felt confident he could find a buyer, making your idea more plausible.

 

[Pitoon]

Entirely speculative, BUT The suspect's identity suggests to me that the trees that were allegedly stolen could have been destined to be sold into the local Chinese community. Given the other charge of catalytic converter theft, this guy sounds like a professional, opportunistic thief looking to turn a quick buck. This is NOT a suggestion that any buyers were criminals, or were involved in the thefts. Says to me the alleged thief had a viable, unsuspecting market for the trees he was taking.

The trees wouldn't be known to buyers in that community and wouldn't turn up in local bonsai circles.

As for prison time, who knows--depends on valuation of the trees and the prosecution's ability to prove the thefts meet felony charges.

So because the guy's identity is Asian.....he's selling to other Asians? Perhaps if a white guy stole the trees, he would be selling them off to other white guys?

I find your suggestion to yourself interesting.

 

[rockm]

So because the guy's identity is Asian.....he's selling to other Asians? Perhaps if a white guy stole the trees, he would be selling them off to other white guys?

I find your suggestion to yourself interesting.

Yeah, thought someone would make this racial...but yeah, I think there is probably a connection between what was stolen, the guy's background and a viable market for the stolen items. And yeah, same goes for White Guys who steal shit.

 

[ShadyStump]

So because the guy's identity is Asian.....he's selling to other Asians? Perhaps if a white guy stole the trees, he would be selling them off to other white guys?

I find your suggestion to yourself interesting.

I don't believe rockm was intending any sort of racism.
Just following from the common knowledge that ethnic enclaves still exist, and that ethnically aligning street gangs are a common occurrence and engage the enclaves.
Add on the known fact that bonsai is more commonly practiced in Asian cultures, it's not an unreasonable or necessarily racist hypothesis.

I won't argue that it might not look it at first glance, but I don't believe he was speaking out of any sort of malice or misunderstanding where race is concerned.

 

[rockm]

Hardly intending to be racist, for crying out loud. If offense was taken, I apologize.

 

[Pitoon]

Yeah, thought someone would make this racial...but yeah, I think there is probably a connection between what was stolen, the guy's background and a viable market for the stolen items. And yeah, same goes for White Guys...

@rockm I am half Asian myself. So when I read your post I tilted my head to the side to really digest what you wrote. While I don't think you meant any wrong in what you wrote, it did make me pause to think over what you wrote.

People steal regardless of their race or ethnic background and people will buy those stolen goods regardless of race or ethnic background.

 

[rockm]

@rockm I am half Asian myself. So when I read your post I tilted my head to the side to really digest what you wrote. While I don't think you meant any wrong in what you wrote, it did make me pause to think over what you wrote.

People steal regardless of their race or ethnic background and people will buy those stolen goods regardless of race or ethnic background.

Yeah, thieves are thieves and they all suck, BUT and here's my reasoning-- Someone unfamiliar with bonsai is less likely to pay top dollar. Those with more knowledge or value of bonsai will likely pay more. Bonsai thefts in Japan are being done by thieves who sell them in China and Europe for top dollar...Not saying the seller was going to sell the tree internationally, but as the article below explains, there is precedent for thieves seeking out markets to get top dollar.

Thieves in Japan steal 400-year-old bonsai tree

Farm owners beg thieves to water the ornamental pot plants

www.theweek.co.uk

From the report--"The theft comes three months after a similar raid on a bonsai farm in nearby Saitama, in which eight Shinpaku trees were stolen, the Asahi Shimbun reports.

The farm’s 81-year-old owner speculated that international black market could be behind the thefts, noting that Shinpaku trees “are often traded in Vietnam and China at prices much higher than in Japan”.

The Case Of The Stolen Bonsai Trees

Thieves recently broke into the Japanese Friendship Garden in the middle of the night and stole six bonsai trees. They were not the most valuable in the collection, but to those who practice the art of bonsai, such a loss represents years of meticulous work wasted.

www.kpbs.org

 

[HorseloverFat]

"....but I have a good friend who's black!"

_ Says The Situationally-unintended but Subconsciously Racist.



(Supposed to be in good fun.. because I, also somewhat, felt like...

. So when I read your post I tilted my head to the side to really digest what you wrote. While I don't think you meant any wrong in what you wrote, it did make me pause to think over what you wrote.

..)

 

[HorseloverFat]

Seriously though...

Nothing Racist was SAID here!



I've "rolled with all SORTS of varied, ethnic criminals... From Samoans, to Eastern Europeans..

They're ALL "shitty"..

White Guys are the WORST!

(I say this as almost half causasian)

 

[ShadyStump]

"....but I have a good friend who's black!"

_ Says The Situationally-unintended but Subconsciously Racist.



(Supposed to be in good fun.. because I, also somewhat, felt like...


..)

I think many of us did, but I fully believe @rockm was just trying to forward the conversation by bringing up a potential factor they we all had, somewhat obviously, been tiptoing around.

 

[Mapleminx]

Well.. the time done has to be reflective of the crime.. proportional...

How much Jail/prison time (extra points if you can tell me the difference WITHOUT searching in ) do you think is fair? ( NOT CONSIDERING that "WE just love Bonsai and are PERSONALLY hurt")

The equivalent... would be stealing a few armloads of paintings from an art museum. So how much is "right"..?

Also states handle these situations differently..

HERE, if all parties pressed charges... the dude has felony priors (I believe).

He'd sit 20-24 months here. About 4-5 years of supervision afterwards. That's a fairly good "stretch".

What's YOUR longest "stay"?

I think he needs to be planted in a big pot and wired up. Let’s not forget to give him a generous watering often complete with some fishy fertilizer. Maybe he’ll survive long enough to need pruning?

 

[HorseloverFat]

enough to need pruning?

Man I HATE gettin' pruned!