One of these Seigens is not like the other...

[Canada Bonsai]

I just need to see a beni-chidori up close, as people claim they are very similar.

They are not at all the same, unless you’re only focused on color and looking at them from 10m away. If you’re focused on color as you seem to be in that particular post, a bear looks like a horse. But if you were focused on shape, a zebra looks like a horse. You need both, color and shape, to find horses. I also recommend taste

In my mind, the shape of the leaf and the shape of the lobes, etc. should be minimally sufficient to make these 2 cultivars look VERY different to somebody who pays attention to these kinds of things… and i think it really does come down to that…

At the risk of sounding like a snob, I attached another screenshot that i think belongs in this thread. “I don’t see any difference” is a totally bonkers statement to me when comparing these 2 leaves But that’s how the world goes … some people find ‘red wine’ vs ‘white wine’ close enough to be interchangeable at a meal, and others are concerned with the ‘major differences’ they find between 2 neighbouring winemakers in the same region using the same practices and tools.

 

[leatherback]

@Canada Bonsai
Happy to see you jump in here, as I had been thinking popping you a private message for your opinion

They are not at all the same, unless you’re only focused on color and looking at them from 10m away.

Can be absolutely true, but I have never seen a benichidori. So I have no way to compare

That comparison picture is gold. Q is now.. Where does this match.. It is a tree imported 20, 30 years ago from Japan. Mismanaged, then the owner passed away and was left for dead at a traders, where I pulled it out of the weeds. Now it is in full health and I am keen to figure this one out. Time-wise a seigen would make sense, as at that time they were more available -is what people who have been around long enough tell me-. It also aligns with the trees I saw this weekend.

that's hilarious!

 

[Noulinator]

@Canada Bonsai
Happy to see you jump in here, as I had been thinking popping you a private message for your opinion


Can be absolutely true, but I have never seen a benichidori. So I have no way to compare

That comparison picture is gold. Q is now.. Where does this match.. It is a tree imported 20, 30 years ago from Japan. Mismanaged, then the owner passed away and was left for dead at a traders, where I pulled it out of the weeds. Now it is in full health and I am keen to figure this one out. Time-wise a seigen would make sense, as at that time they were more available -is what people who have been around long enough tell me-. It also aligns with the trees I saw this weekend.

View attachment 593758
View attachment 593759


that's hilarious!

Amazing color! Dont take my word for it, but to me that looks a bit like a seigen from what i’ve seen from the internet. I have a benichidori and at this stage of leaf development it is quite more salmon coloured. However I am only a rookie in this world.
Also the middle “finger” looks longer than on benichidori and more slim.
Benichidori seems more “fat” in the lobes to me.

I bought a tree labeled deshojo last summer. Turns out it was not.
Seller (bonsai Plaza) says it is either a seigen or benichidori based on the nursery it came from.

Multiple forums/groups says it is benichidori.
What do you think, @Canada Bonsai ?

Attached some pictures next to a deshojo. Deshojo is definitely darker and more deep red while this being more pink. I think that benichidori goes more “salmon” in color while the leafs develop. But again, just a sapling that really think these cultivars are so exciting that I have read a lot online about them.
Green leaves picture is leaf shape from last summer

Again I need to stress that I am no one to judge.
Very excited on your behalf!

 

[Noulinator]

So I just took a look now, and my leaves has changed quite a bit and now I am confused.

Sorry to just jump in there between your conversation! @Canada Bonsai @leatherback

 

[zita]

Time-wise a seigen would make sense

looks loke a seigen with the yellow veines.

 

[Noulinator]

I just received this Seigen today. Does it look right? Bought from Guy Maillot.
Sold as Seigen and the text says “also called seigai”

However a quick google search tells me that seigai (bonfire) is another cultivar.

Any ideas of this looks like a seigen or a “seigai”?

 

[19Mateo83]

I just received this Seigen today. Does it look right? Bought from Guy Maillot.
Sold as Seigen and the text says “also called seigai”

However a quick google search tells me that seigai (bonfire) is another cultivar.

Any ideas of this looks like a seigen or a “seigai”?

I have a bonfire, aka seigai, from @Maples N More Nursery . Yours looks to have more reds and pinks but like any other JM, color is variable to environment, light exposure and plant health in general. Here’s my bonfire for comparison. The leaf shape on yours appears to be correct for seigen

 

[Noulinator]

I have a bonfire, aka seigai, from @Maples N More Nursery . Yours looks to have more reds and pinks but like any other JM, color is variable to environment, light exposure and plant health in general. Here’s my bonfire for comparison. The leaf shape on yours appears to be correct for seigen
View attachment 594504

I can see the shape is a bit different from yours. However yours doesnt look like it has leafed out fully yet?