"Oldest" bonsai? or a load of BS...just wondering

Now this is what it should look like after 1000 years!

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The ficus at Angkor Wat are not 1,000 because the complex isn't 1,000. Many of the ficus at the site are dated to less than 100 years ago, some possibly 300-400, 500 at the outside-- from what I can find. Seems no one really knows exactly how old some of the trees are--, but the temple was built in the 11th century. It was abandon in the 15th century (1400s) about 600 years ago...
 
The ficus at Angkor Wat are not 1,000 because the complex isn't 1,000. Many of the ficus at the site are dated to less than 100 years ago, some possibly 300-400, 500 at the outside-- from what I can find. Seems no one really knows exactly how old some of the trees are--, but the temple was built in the 11th century. It was abandon in the 15th century (1400s) about 600 years ago...
I know the age of the Angkor Wat and of course the trees aren't 1000 like you said. Still when I think of old strangler figs I think of Angkor.
When I was growing up there was one really old one just outside of Saigon. The tree had dozens and dozens of aerial roots the size of my thigh. The roots wrapped one another and the trunk so I had no idea how big the trunk was. We used to play hide and seek among the clumps of aerial roots. Unfortunately the tree was killed by Agent Orange.
 
There are depictions of containerized plant material amongst the hieroglyphics in the funerary temple of Queen Hatshepsut from 1500 b.c.. I think it would be safe to say people have containerized plants for some time.........

This Ficus, however.....1000 years? Not with all the social upheaval as previously mentioned. And also mentioned.......yeah, a THOUSAND YEARS is a helluva' long time!!!! 🤔


Not to mention it looks like a lot of those years some rookie was caring for it. Didn't really make the tree look very good!🥴😆😆😆😆😆😆
 
I'm sure over 1000 years somebody would forget to water it. I have a hard enough time going 5 or 10 years without a catastrophe.

There is a tendency to "age rapidly" once everyone old enough to really remember has passed away. A friend from Nepal, her Grandparents seemed to age 2 years for every year according to village lore once they were older than all their neighbors. When they died, claims were made that they were 104 and 109 years old. They were born before birth certificates. However, if we assumed the grandmother had her first child at 20 years old (restrained for the time) she would have been only 86, and if she had her first kid at 16 (more common in the rural villages) she was only 82 when she died. But she was the oldest woman in the village, so the village had decided she was 104 and her husband was 109. Jnan (the husband) was thought to be 5 years older.

Of course a tree 1000 years in a bonsai pot is much more valuable than a tree only 25 or 40 years in a bonsai pot. We sell perception, don't we?
 
I'm sure over 1000 years somebody would forget to water it. I have a hard enough time going 5 or 10 years without a catastrophe.

There is a tendency to "age rapidly" once everyone old enough to really remember has passed away. A friend from Nepal, her Grandparents seemed to age 2 years for every year according to village lore once they were older than all their neighbors. When they died, claims were made that they were 104 and 109 years old. They were born before birth certificates. However, if we assumed the grandmother had her first child at 20 years old (restrained for the time) she would have been only 86, and if she had her first kid at 16 (more common in the rural villages) she was only 82 when she died. But she was the oldest woman in the village, so the village had decided she was 104 and her husband was 109. Jnan (the husband) was thought to be 5 years older.

Of course a tree 1000 years in a bonsai pot is much more valuable than a tree only 25 or 40 years in a bonsai pot. We sell perception, don't we?
Where I grew up, those giant ficus in pots were often potted with soil that wasn't as free draining as regular bonsai soil here. Plus in the hot summer we have monsoon rain every day like clockwork so no watering needed. In the fall and winter, if we forgot to water, it was much cooler so it wasn't too bad. I don't remember having to worry so much about watering those things. One of my uncle had a really big one and he only watered it every now and then.

You are right about the memory thing. Everything is much exaggerated with time. When I came back to the cliff that I dove off into the ocean when I was young, it was so high then and not so much now.
 
1000 years is quite a crazy amount of time, especially to be kept as a bonsai that long. The lack of detailed history is sketchy… I’m sure it’s hundreds of hundreds of years for sure.

I was at the Chicago Botanical Gardens for the Midwest Bonsai Society show last weekend and saw this tree
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No doubt another oldie, 600-1000 is a big range. Since there was a big show happening there was a curator (I assume) who walked around and explained the history of the trees. This stunted tree was collected from a stand of trees in the Rockies that is allegedly hundreds and hundreds of years old. This tree has been in training for maybe 50 years.

At the end of the day, none of us were around even 100 years ago, so these ages could all be complete heresy
The curator to whom you refer is Chris Baker. I was in a class on Wednesday evening with him, and this tree was one of the topics discussed. There are numerous areas in the Rockies and throughout the Black Hills where the USDA or the Forestry Service have core-sampled trees in different stands or groves to assess their approximate age. This allows for some extrapolation of a range of ages, as is the case here. In addition, limber pines are relatively slow growers, whereas a faster-growing Ponderosa in harsh conditions will grow approximately one radial inch per hundred years. I think the range estimate is entirely credible.
 
I’m always sceptical of these claims. Think of it this way as a bonsai practitioner would you make such a claim without being able to back it up . Where is the evidence . Family history even something as recently as 100 years ago where the old tree was mentioned . After all it was 900 years old I realize it’s a different country but I doubt there is a tree in Japan . That is over 100 that there us not proof of . Family tree inheritance different artists that worked on it . Etc There are people that have seen Elvis and or talked to aliens 👽 But can’t back it up if you owned that very nice tree why would you want people thinking your dishonest 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️
 
I never get tired on looking at these picts. I hope to someday make a small pottery ruins to train a ficus over. These massive roots really make the ruins look like a toy.
Seen a ficus displayed once unconventional but powerful . There was a shallow bonsai pot sitting on a flat slab of marble . So the marble looked like a display stand or base for the pot . Tree planted in the pot of course . But the roots escaped over the side at one end of the pot . And into moss covered compost on the slab . Instantly made me think of these trees overgrown ruins. Roots escaped there intended growing conditions like I said was very powerful composition
 
There is a collection of genuine specimens on a solid slate table, the most of which are over a century old and were trained by prominent Japanese masters such as Ogasawara, Kato, Kaneko, Kawamoto, and Kawahara. After seeing these pictures, i do believe this is more than 1,000 year old Bonsai tree in Italy. its branches are so thick, can't grow in a century. A species of evergreen woody plant in the fig genus, Ficus retusa is indigenous to the floristic region of Malesia and the Malay Archipelago. Ficus retusa is a fast-growing, round, broad headed, evergreen shrub or tree that can grow to a height of 10 meters (33 feet) with an equal spread. Its trunk is smooth and light grey, and it can reach a diameter of around 1 meter (3.3 feet). The trunk also provides strong support for the massively spreading canopy. such an amazing natural marvel kept safe in the museum. When the museum opened in 1991, the bonsai, placed in a majestic glass pagoda, served as its centerpiece. A frequent bonsai for beginners is F. retusa. There is no doubt over it. When you google oldest bonsai tree in the world you will get the answer of Ficus Retusa Linn
 
I was at the Chicago Botanical Gardens for the Midwest Bonsai Society show last weekend and saw this tree

No doubt another oldie, 600-1000 is a big range.
I worked on that tree back in 1995 at Gerry's house, so I can vouch that it is at least 29 years old. :)

Separately, I was curious how old ficus can live in the wild, and I did a quick search to discover that a ficus holds the world record for the oldest tree that was knowingly planted by mankind (versus natural seedling). It is 2,300 years old and was planted in 288 B.C.
 
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As a matter of curiosity, bonsai, or rather penjing, was practiced in China during the Han Dynasty, 206 BC to 220 AD. Simply trees in pots predates this in ancient India.
 
There is a collection of genuine specimens on a solid slate table, the most of which are over a century old and were trained by prominent Japanese masters such as Ogasawara, Kato, Kaneko, Kawamoto, and Kawahara. After seeing these pictures, i do believe this is more than 1,000 year old Bonsai tree in Italy. its branches are so thick, can't grow in a century. A species of evergreen woody plant in the fig genus, Ficus retusa is indigenous to the floristic region of Malesia and the Malay Archipelago. Ficus retusa is a fast-growing, round, broad headed, evergreen shrub or tree that can grow to a height of 10 meters (33 feet) with an equal spread. Its trunk is smooth and light grey, and it can reach a diameter of around 1 meter (3.3 feet). The trunk also provides strong support for the massively spreading canopy. such an amazing natural marvel kept safe in the museum. When the museum opened in 1991, the bonsai, placed in a majestic glass pagoda, served as its centerpiece. A frequent bonsai for beginners is F. retusa. There is no doubt over it. When you google oldest bonsai tree in the world you will get the answer of Ficus Retusa Linn
The tree you mention is the original subject of this post. I highly doubt the tree is 1,000 years or even the oldest bonsai. It comes up in searches as such because the owner of the exhibit lists it as the oldest. There is no documentation of its origins. Given that ficus exhibit no reliable annual growth rings in older wood, documentation would provide more evidence. No one has really asked them to prove the claim. The owner of the tree saying it is the oldest doesn't make it so. He's got exhibit tickets to sell.
 
I have a former daughter in law who is a Ph.D. botanist, whose specialty is very old trees. Her dissertation was on the genetics of the coast redwood, and it took me an hour with a dictionary to understand the title. She explained that trees lack the genetic limiting mechanism that primates have, which limits the number of times cells can divide and reproduce. Absent a fire, disease, or human intrusion, certain species of trees could theoretically be immortal. She’s presently in Germany, studying one of the few remnant stand of ancient trees in the Bavarian Forest national park.
 
I think there's a video of that 1000 year old ficus when it got it's first bonsai pot 995 years ago 😂 😂 😂
 
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