nursery juniper

[linlaoboo]

Hi folks, Here's my 2nd attempt at a nursery juniper. The base of the tree is only about 2 inches. What do you think can be improved with this cheap material? I only spent $10 from a nursery's junk pile. It's probably some kind of Chinese juniper. I started styling the tree and only wired the lowest left branch and right branch so far and I'll be working on it some more on weekends.

 

[linlaoboo]

Here's a sketch of the general shape I envision so far. . .

 

[MidMichBonsai]

That's an interesting bend and looks like it's done the right way. My questions is, "What is the story you are telling with this tree." Remember that each tree is telling us a story and I'm not sure what story this one is telling.

Because trees grow towards the light (up) unless they are inhibited in some way, I'm unsure what situation in nature would have created the shape that your have put in the branch. Unless you're going for a somewhat "off the wall" aesthetic, there should be a, "The tree was growing like this, and then this happened to it which forced it to adapt in this way" story. The reason the "story" is important is we don't want people looking at the tree and saying, "some one obviously bent that because that would never happen in nature."

It's hard for me to think of a scenario in nature that would force a tree to do this. The bend is done very well but I'm left thinking, "Just because we can bend something, does that mean we should?"

Things to ponder...

 

[KennedyMarx]

You've obviously been taking in information and studying. I agree with the good execution of the bend, but that it doesn't seem to make much sense.

The branch structure in your vert should be more cohesive. By that I mean that your branches should all follow the same sort of trajectory. Snow piles on conifers needles so that the branches are weighted down and grow out in a sagging trajectory. So it doesn't make sense that some of your branches would grow that way and not others.

I would sit the tree deeper in the pot so that the soil level is, well, level, and let it rest for the year. Think about jining the branch you bent and developing a more compact silhouette. I'm sure others with much better eyes and experience can chime in.

 

[Poink88]

You've obviously been taking in information and studying. I agree with the good execution of the bend, but that it doesn't seem to make much sense.

The branch structure in your vert should be more cohesive. By that I mean that your branches should all follow the same sort of trajectory. Snow piles on conifers needles so that the branches are weighted down and grow out in a sagging trajectory. So it doesn't make sense that some of your branches would grow that way and not others.

I would sit the tree deeper in the pot so that the soil level is, well, level, and let it rest for the year. Think about jining the branch you bent and developing a more compact silhouette. I'm sure others with much better eyes and experience can chime in.

I agree.

Based on pic #4...I would have chopped/jin the branch/trunk that was bent and develop the left branch as the new apex, maybe pull the left part down to cascade to the left.

 

[Lazylightningny]

I agree.

Based on pic #4...I would have chopped/jin the branch/trunk that was bent and develop the left branch as the new apex, maybe pull the left part down to cascade to the left.

That was also my initial thought.

 

[linlaoboo]

Good thoughts. I haven't think it through what the story is. I was simply working on the aesthetics of getting the the lowest branch and the back branch in there and go with the flow with the rest. I've had it for over a year and couldn't come up with a more obvious front than this. Instead of bending the whole top down I probably could have pulled a side branch down and cut the bent trunk to achieve the same effect and have it look more natural but it'll take a long time for the foliage to fill in. Knowing the juniper grows slowly, I was looking for something more instant.

These are definitely the feedback I was hoping to get. I like the jinnng idea for the bent trunk instead. Thank's so much and I have more thinking and work to do down the road.

Peter.

 

[M. Frary]

If my trees had a story to tell it would probably be a horror story.

 

[october]

It is very possible to make this tree into a nice bonsai in a relatively short amount of time. However, first, you will need to cut off that big branch on the right that you wired down. Then jin the bottom branch on the left. A little wiring and you will be all set. I believe that your current design is going to end up disappointing you down the road. I submit this virt for you too look at. A before and then after.

Rob

 

[lordy]

I too would prefer to see the left branch as jin, not the apex, and convert the center to the apex, as Rob has shown. I have gone through bending the branch that seems most likely, then completely eliminate it later. Save yourself time and do away with that part now. You'll probably thank yourself later.

 

[Vance Wood]

I too would prefer to see the left branch as jin, not the apex, and convert the center to the apex, as Rob has shown. I have gone through bending the branch that seems most likely, then completely eliminate it later. Save yourself time and do away with that part now. You'll probably thank yourself later.

I would leave the branch bent the way it is for the time being until you get the strength into the other portions of the tree. Then when it comes to time to eliminate this branch rather than cutting it off you have the option of jinning it.

 

[Neli]

Stories have their place...but for me art has feeling and not because of...
I like interesting unusual designs...
I would think of creating and apex...right at the bent.
Many junipers in Japan are styled like this...and I mean many.
An apex is developed from a small branch near the bend and eventually the cascading part of the trunk becomes a branch

 

[Neli]

Just remember if you have to include a story that junipers are growing in very harsh conditions and first branches are always at different levels, to express that.
This is an idea of what You can do with that branch but you will need to bend it eventually closer to the trunk.

 

[Lazylightningny]

I like Rob's virt, but I was thinking of eliminating the right branch entirely, and going with the left branch as the new leader. this might put it more in perspective with the trunk width.

 

[MidMichBonsai]

Stories have their place...but for me art has feeling and not because of...
I like interesting unusual designs...
I would think of creating and apex...right at the bent.
Many junipers in Japan are styled like this...and I mean many.
An apex is developed from a small branch near the bend and eventually the cascading part of the trunk becomes a branch

I completely agree, but isn't it true that most of the junipers that do this in Japan are yamadori? Nature made them do what they do over a long period of time and therefore it's plausible. With this situation, the tree is clearly young and I'm having a hard time coming up with a scenario, based on its age, where this could happen without the hand of man.

I'm totally open to the fact that we may just have slightly different aesthetic tastes which is what makes an artist an artist. If we all followed the rules, our trees would all look the same that is extremely boring!

Much respect.

 

[Vin]

Stories have their place...but for me art has feeling and not because of...
I like interesting unusual designs...
I would think of creating and apex...right at the bent.
Many junipers in Japan are styled like this...and I mean many.
An apex is developed from a small branch near the bend and eventually the cascading part of the trunk becomes a branch

Okay, now you're just showing off...

Them are some spectacular examples!

 

[Neli]

Okay, now you're just showing off...

Them are some spectacular examples!

Yes darling, If they were mine I was going to be showing off for sure...but this are trees from Taisho en and some I worked on... I just took the pictures.and that I can not show off with since I am a lousy photographer...

I completely agree, but isn't it true that most of the junipers that do this in Japan are yamadori? Nature made them do what they do over a long period of time and therefore it's plausible. With this situation, the tree is clearly young and I'm having a hard time coming up with a scenario, based on its age, where this could happen without the hand of man.

I'm totally open to the fact that we may just have slightly different aesthetic tastes which is what makes an artist an artist. If we all followed the rules, our trees would all look the same that is extremely boring!

Much respect.

Many junipers are hand made like this...Growers have the habit of chopping most of the lower branches and leaving just some on top...so it is very normal to use the apex continuation of the trunk as a first main branch. Very common...I just have too many pictures and could not find better examples.

BTW I like Rob's virtual also...Just wanted to give an example that You can go that way too.

 

[Neli]

The third picture on top is a Scots juniper that gave me a headache to style...and this was its first styling...I am not sure how it got there, but notice the first branch.

 

[MidMichBonsai]

Many junipers are hand made like this...Growers have the habit of chopping most of the lower branches and leaving just some on top...so it is very normal to use the apex continuation of the trunk as a first main branch. Very common...I just have too many pictures and could not find better examples.

I think I understand what you're saying now and yes, I think in that scenario, it would work very nicely. I do like your virt but to create it, special care would need to be taken to balance the apex and that first main branch. If that can be achieved, I think this could develop into a very fine tree.

Thanks for the vision and input. Def. a healthy discussion.

 

[Neli]

All you need to do is develop an apex from a small branch near the bend. Every time we use trunk as first branch we demarcate a branch on top as future apex.