LanceMac10
Imperial Masterpiece
To Thomas, then....this Guinness is for you, my rotund Testudinata!!!
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
Matt,
Even though I'm being a drag, I'm really not trying to. Just trying to wave my arms in warning that what you're going to do isn't easy. It can certainly be done, especially if YOU WORK WITH FICUS and a couple of other stronger tropical species and don't try to grow "outdoor" species like juniper, pine, elm and maple indoors. There are more than a few who insist on doing that and get mad and discouraged when it doesn't work.
I wish Redwood Ryan and other folks who have been hacking away at indoor techniques would weigh in with some specifics on how to accomplish this in an apartment. BTW, I had my greatest success with indoor trees by putting a big shelf up in my bathroom for the trees. The bathroom has a skylight and a 15 foot vaulted ceiling, but is only about ten by ten--a lot of humidity and light in a relatively small space...
Even though I'm being a drag, I'm really not trying to. Just trying to wave my arms in warning that what you're going to do isn't easy. It can certainly be done, especially if YOU WORK WITH FICUS and a couple of other stronger tropical species and don't try to grow "outdoor" species like juniper, pine, elm and maple indoors. There are more than a few who insist on doing that and get mad and discouraged when it doesn't work.
I wish Redwood Ryan and other folks who have been hacking away at indoor techniques would weigh in with some specifics on how to accomplish this in an apartment. BTW, I had my greatest success with indoor trees by putting a big shelf up in my bathroom for the trees. The bathroom has a skylight and a 15 foot vaulted ceiling, but is only about ten by ten--a lot of humidity and light in a relatively small space...
MattE
Shohin
I completely understand where your coming from, it's not deterring me or stopping me ..it's kinda a bummer but it is what it is , I have done a lot of research on plants that can withstand my kind of weather and I have found many , maples , pines, spruces , heck even birch and some nice crab apple bonsais I have seen in bloom are gorgeous. I grew up in a very green house always lots of plants in every room.
I appreciate this site and all your help. Nothing will stop me from trying and or doing bonsai. My biggest passions in life are photography , art and nature and I feel bonsai will give me a great satisfaction and relaxation of all of those. So thank you again rockm and everyone else..this is turning out to be a great thread with amazing info , laughs and music
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
(deleted BS may add to sniper thread)
@MattE And @Ironbeaver
What kind of heat do you have?
Forced air? Radiators? Radiant?
I only ask....because it is So Important....and still rarely gets brought up.
I have hot water radiators.
I can pretty surely say my learning curve for indoor tropicals and outdoor natives are equal.
Where indoor it was lighting,
Outdoors was cold protection.
Death rates, growth rates, funky soil rates, care rates, so on so....pretty equal.
So progressing them, with growth, and work, has been more or less equal.
Layed out as it is, one would expect one of my elms to be my best. I certainly did.
Surely we shouldn't expect it to be a ficus Benjamin..that I feel the most progressed, but it is!
(this is based on the public opinion of species, and MY opinion on design. I like my ficus the most. It is not the best EVER, but it is MY most "tree")
It's hard to organize...forgive me.
Please balance these contradictory facts that follow for yourself, how they fit your mission.
This is based on, more or less, everything we talk about in regards to having a righteous collection. Which I think is the most difficult thing for us Apartment dwellers, with or without outdoor space. And we always get left out!
My indoor setup is on the mad cheap, I don't even have "grow lights".
Mites, be they 2 spot, spider, white, seen, unseen, black, yellow, etc.
All change to "rabbit mites" indoors.
They must be dealt with.
NOTHING, not light, not water, not fert,....
NOTHING, halts growth indoors like mites,
NOTHING.
My favorite ficus goes outside at consistent 50f temps, and comes in the first day below 50, regardless.
2 moves ONLY, no Backbreak and forth! Never a leaf drop. (see don't defoliate!)
I cut it at both moves, to take its mind off dropping leaves, and get it growing em. It works!
The internodes outside, are 1/2in or larger.
The internodes indoors, 1/2in or less.
I did not type that backwards.
(drawing below)
It grows, maybe 25% "stronger" outside, in pretty, thicker, more showable leaves, but not really much more.
It took all summer outside to pop one bud low after the bring in cutting, in the wrong spot.
Now, it's showing more swelling, action, and budding down low after pruning, after being indoors 3 months!
So contrary to general popular belief. I'm only sacrificing a little stronger(maybe?) growth, with longer internodes(no-no)...by keeping it inside all the time....in a half ass set up.
I should (and will now that I'm thinking about it, thanks to HERE!)
Just grow it inside, and when all but the last "new flush" of new growth is needed for the final design...then I will cut it, and defoliate as in the top drawing here. So all those buds pop, with tiny leaves and give me that many small leaves.....and pop it outside to get the pretty leaves.
Whereas, if it's outside, and I do the same thing, I will only have that many tiny leaves....not convincing.
(I just learned something there!)
My Favorite Ficus is only my favorite because I focus on it.
Give it an extra desk lamp.
Remember to fertilize it.
I have had 75 planted trees in the apartment, and down to about 8, I've found a good balance of work to do, and allowance for patience, and focus. For me, for now
Downsizing and finding a balance in this has simply allowed for a more enjoyable collection.
2 hours is tooooo long...I gotta eat!
Wait wait wait...no eating yet.....
It doesn't have to be a crazy mad huge hot burning light set up....just close and for 16-18 hrs.
An elaborate setup is a reverse placebo.
It makes you think shit it gonna be so great you fail to remember the fert, water, thought, cleanliness, diligence.
What happens when you search reverse placebo here?
Sorce
@MattE And @Ironbeaver
What kind of heat do you have?
Forced air? Radiators? Radiant?
I only ask....because it is So Important....and still rarely gets brought up.
I have hot water radiators.
I can pretty surely say my learning curve for indoor tropicals and outdoor natives are equal.
Where indoor it was lighting,
Outdoors was cold protection.
Death rates, growth rates, funky soil rates, care rates, so on so....pretty equal.
So progressing them, with growth, and work, has been more or less equal.
Layed out as it is, one would expect one of my elms to be my best. I certainly did.
Surely we shouldn't expect it to be a ficus Benjamin..that I feel the most progressed, but it is!
(this is based on the public opinion of species, and MY opinion on design. I like my ficus the most. It is not the best EVER, but it is MY most "tree")
It's hard to organize...forgive me.
Please balance these contradictory facts that follow for yourself, how they fit your mission.
This is based on, more or less, everything we talk about in regards to having a righteous collection. Which I think is the most difficult thing for us Apartment dwellers, with or without outdoor space. And we always get left out!
My indoor setup is on the mad cheap, I don't even have "grow lights".
Mites, be they 2 spot, spider, white, seen, unseen, black, yellow, etc.
All change to "rabbit mites" indoors.
They must be dealt with.
NOTHING, not light, not water, not fert,....
NOTHING, halts growth indoors like mites,
NOTHING.
My favorite ficus goes outside at consistent 50f temps, and comes in the first day below 50, regardless.
2 moves ONLY, no Backbreak and forth! Never a leaf drop. (see don't defoliate!)
I cut it at both moves, to take its mind off dropping leaves, and get it growing em. It works!
The internodes outside, are 1/2in or larger.
The internodes indoors, 1/2in or less.
I did not type that backwards.
(drawing below)
It grows, maybe 25% "stronger" outside, in pretty, thicker, more showable leaves, but not really much more.
It took all summer outside to pop one bud low after the bring in cutting, in the wrong spot.
Now, it's showing more swelling, action, and budding down low after pruning, after being indoors 3 months!
So contrary to general popular belief. I'm only sacrificing a little stronger(maybe?) growth, with longer internodes(no-no)...by keeping it inside all the time....in a half ass set up.
I should (and will now that I'm thinking about it, thanks to HERE!)
Just grow it inside, and when all but the last "new flush" of new growth is needed for the final design...then I will cut it, and defoliate as in the top drawing here. So all those buds pop, with tiny leaves and give me that many small leaves.....and pop it outside to get the pretty leaves.
Whereas, if it's outside, and I do the same thing, I will only have that many tiny leaves....not convincing.
(I just learned something there!)
My Favorite Ficus is only my favorite because I focus on it.
Give it an extra desk lamp.
Remember to fertilize it.
I have had 75 planted trees in the apartment, and down to about 8, I've found a good balance of work to do, and allowance for patience, and focus. For me, for now
Downsizing and finding a balance in this has simply allowed for a more enjoyable collection.
2 hours is tooooo long...I gotta eat!
Wait wait wait...no eating yet.....
It doesn't have to be a crazy mad huge hot burning light set up....just close and for 16-18 hrs.
An elaborate setup is a reverse placebo.
It makes you think shit it gonna be so great you fail to remember the fert, water, thought, cleanliness, diligence.
What happens when you search reverse placebo here?
Sorce
Last edited:
amcoffeegirl
Masterpiece
HelloAnd welcome I am an apartment dweller and tropical prebonsai grower.
I do not have any special lighting just a doublewide southern window. I have about 20-25 ficus at any given time and
3 plants at work that grow just under t8 lighting. No sunlight at all.
I really enjoy ficus and smaller trees.
It is fun to learn new things. Don't be too hard on yourself if you lose a few along the way.
When you start working on trees don't reduce/cut too fast- the roots or the branches.
Jerry Meislik is a northern indoor grower.
Also google adamaskwhy blog. You may not be able to do everything he does because he lives in Florida. You have to wait until growing season.
The aquarium thing can work just maybe not like your vision.
An open top tank with a strip light hanging over it could work to enhance humidity. You could add a small fan if needed. Plants really dry out fast in the winter months so you must water carefully.
Last but not least you will want a free draining soil for your trees . I use lava, turface and pine mostly.
Good luck feel free to ask questions.
Ficus willow leaf is my fav.
Also schefflera is good - look up fuku bonsai in Hawaii.
Last edited:
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
- Messages
- 11,437
- Reaction score
- 23,644
- USDA Zone
- 5b
Go crazy indoors, I did. This is a shot of half of my unfinished basement.
Should have built a vapor barrier, or humidity tent, not to keep the humidity higher around the orchid, but to keep the humidity from the orchids from leaking out and damaging the rest of the house. Other than that, it works.
Somewhere north of say 200 to 400 plants, the plants transpire enough moisture to create their own "weather". Even on the driest of days, humidity is above 40% down here. Grouping plants will increase humidity. Fans in the room provide air movement 24 hrs day, not just when the lights are on. Lights on 18 hrs a day. HPS and ordinary 40 watt shop lights. Some of HPS have been replaced with T5 HO Fluorescent 5800K lamps. Roughly 1200 plants mostly orchids, when this was taken. Now I am down to about 900.
I winter this "Mexicali Fig", a Ficus species, somewhat like willow leaf fig, indoors in the light garden every winter. Its somewhere in the light garden photo. When its this crowded with plants, I have to move near a dozen trays to create an aisle, then put them back when I'm done. Now that I have less this year, don't have to do that anymore.
Ficus sp "Mexicali" it is same cultivar that Jerry Mieslick has labeled as "Mexicali" not quite the same as Wigert's 'Willow leaf', some subtle but distinct differences.
Should have built a vapor barrier, or humidity tent, not to keep the humidity higher around the orchid, but to keep the humidity from the orchids from leaking out and damaging the rest of the house. Other than that, it works.
Somewhere north of say 200 to 400 plants, the plants transpire enough moisture to create their own "weather". Even on the driest of days, humidity is above 40% down here. Grouping plants will increase humidity. Fans in the room provide air movement 24 hrs day, not just when the lights are on. Lights on 18 hrs a day. HPS and ordinary 40 watt shop lights. Some of HPS have been replaced with T5 HO Fluorescent 5800K lamps. Roughly 1200 plants mostly orchids, when this was taken. Now I am down to about 900.
I winter this "Mexicali Fig", a Ficus species, somewhat like willow leaf fig, indoors in the light garden every winter. Its somewhere in the light garden photo. When its this crowded with plants, I have to move near a dozen trays to create an aisle, then put them back when I'm done. Now that I have less this year, don't have to do that anymore.
Ficus sp "Mexicali" it is same cultivar that Jerry Mieslick has labeled as "Mexicali" not quite the same as Wigert's 'Willow leaf', some subtle but distinct differences.
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
Lol....I guess I never expected to hear a "California Echo" from NE Illinois!
That picture is crazy!
The base of that Fig is exceptional!
The way the little ones root comes back to "hold hands", really works!
Sorce
just.wing.it
Deadwood Head
Dang, now I'm hungry...
maverickheath
Mame
Welcome dude
I'd recommend a Chinese elm they are really strong trees
Or as said before a ficus
If you want one what flowers get a
Rhododendron azalea
I'd recommend a Chinese elm they are really strong trees
Or as said before a ficus
If you want one what flowers get a
Rhododendron azalea
MattE
Shohin
Another question ....
When it comes to wire ..I have been on many sites looking at supplies ..and I see there a huge gaps in pricing at some sites..do you guys actually get wore from these people or do you go to hardware stores for it ?
When it comes to wire ..I have been on many sites looking at supplies ..and I see there a huge gaps in pricing at some sites..do you guys actually get wore from these people or do you go to hardware stores for it ?
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
http://www.bonsainut.com/threads/my-grand-wiring-job.21076/
Best info there as of late....
Study annealing....
Watch the craftsy video....
And find an electrician friend!
Copper is down, aquirimg it should be absolutely free.
Sorce
MattE
Shohin
Thanks Sorce
Appreciate all your help
eferguson1974
Chumono
We sound a lot alike but far away! I read up a lot before I felt I could keep trees alive at least. Then I dove into the deep end. Mine are all too early in the game to call bonsai. But with the guidance of this bunch of nice folks and time, we'll have some trees tortured in a strange manner that we hope will look good. Lol. Sounds like your snake bit as bad as me, just where its cold. Nice to know there are others everywhere.....Hope we enjoy the journy!I completely understand where your coming from, it's not deterring me or stopping me ..it's kinda a bummer but it is what it is , I have done a lot of research on plants that can withstand my kind of weather and I have found many , maples , pines, spruces , heck even birch and some nice crab apple bonsais I have seen in bloom are gorgeous. I grew up in a very green house always lots of plants in every room.
I appreciate this site and all your help. Nothing will stop me from trying and or doing bonsai. My biggest passions in life are photography , art and nature and I feel bonsai will give me a great satisfaction and relaxation of all of those. So thank you again rockm and everyone else..this is turning out to be a great thread with amazing info , laughs and music
Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
I've been growing indoors for probably 6 or 7 years now, started when I was about 15. Indoor growing is a lot of fun. It's also a lot of work. People think all you have to do is put a plant in a window and bam, a masterpiece will grow in 2-3 years. It is so much more than that. You've got to look at humidity, lighting, and air movement.
I frequently get told that I shouldn't be growing plants indoors because it isn't natural and my trees will never become anything decent. I show them pictures of these Ficus, that were grown by a Vietnamese man indoors for over 15 years:
I like to think those are gorgeous trees.
It should also be noted that growing indoors is expensive. I've got my trees under two $400 LED lights. That's a lot of money for a college student like myself. Can you tell I don't know how to budget my money? I also just ordered another T5 fluorescent to help with more light. Here's my grow room as it is now:
That PVC frame is where my 4 foot, 6 bulb T5 will sit. Almost all of my trees have trunks of over 5 inches at least. It's a fun hobby, and growing indoors is enjoyable for the most part, but as Sorce pointed out, you've got to be careful of bugs. This year I've been battling mites and scale. Mites are the absolute worst. They are unforgiving. I've got them right now. Pretty sure I've always had them. But, when the trees go outdoors they'll be better.
That's crucial. Your trees should go outdoors when the weather permits. No tree should ever be grown indoors year round, unless you're Jerry Meislik's trees. Granted, he lives in an area that could receive frost at any moment. Part of the hobby for me is experimenting with what will help my trees grow their best and be as healthy as possible. So while people will tell me it's not worth it, this is part of the fun and I'll always do it.
Best of luck!
I frequently get told that I shouldn't be growing plants indoors because it isn't natural and my trees will never become anything decent. I show them pictures of these Ficus, that were grown by a Vietnamese man indoors for over 15 years:
I like to think those are gorgeous trees.
It should also be noted that growing indoors is expensive. I've got my trees under two $400 LED lights. That's a lot of money for a college student like myself. Can you tell I don't know how to budget my money? I also just ordered another T5 fluorescent to help with more light. Here's my grow room as it is now:
That PVC frame is where my 4 foot, 6 bulb T5 will sit. Almost all of my trees have trunks of over 5 inches at least. It's a fun hobby, and growing indoors is enjoyable for the most part, but as Sorce pointed out, you've got to be careful of bugs. This year I've been battling mites and scale. Mites are the absolute worst. They are unforgiving. I've got them right now. Pretty sure I've always had them. But, when the trees go outdoors they'll be better.
That's crucial. Your trees should go outdoors when the weather permits. No tree should ever be grown indoors year round, unless you're Jerry Meislik's trees. Granted, he lives in an area that could receive frost at any moment. Part of the hobby for me is experimenting with what will help my trees grow their best and be as healthy as possible. So while people will tell me it's not worth it, this is part of the fun and I'll always do it.
Best of luck!
MattE
Shohin
Yes snake bite is right lol.. i cant wait to go check out my local nursery and see what they have..have to wait for a pay check tho lol
MattE
Shohin
WOW loving those !! what a great set up you have. yeah i read the full artical on the lighting and what spectrum's work best ect.. such great information .. LOVE this site and the people who have helped out thus far .. everyone seems pretty awesomeI've been growing indoors for probably 6 or 7 years now, started when I was about 15. Indoor growing is a lot of fun. It's also a lot of work. People think all you have to do is put a plant in a window and bam, a masterpiece will grow in 2-3 years. It is so much more than that. You've got to look at humidity, lighting, and air movement.
I frequently get told that I shouldn't be growing plants indoors because it isn't natural and my trees will never become anything decent. I show them pictures of these Ficus, that were grown by a Vietnamese man indoors for over 15 years:
I like to think those are gorgeous trees.
It should also be noted that growing indoors is expensive. I've got my trees under two $400 LED lights. That's a lot of money for a college student like myself. Can you tell I don't know how to budget my money? I also just ordered another T5 fluorescent to help with more light. Here's my grow room as it is now:
That PVC frame is where my 4 foot, 6 bulb T5 will sit. Almost all of my trees have trunks of over 5 inches at least. It's a fun hobby, and growing indoors is enjoyable for the most part, but as Sorce pointed out, you've got to be careful of bugs. This year I've been battling mites and scale. Mites are the absolute worst. They are unforgiving. I've got them right now. Pretty sure I've always had them. But, when the trees go outdoors they'll be better.
That's crucial. Your trees should go outdoors when the weather permits. No tree should ever be grown indoors year round, unless you're Jerry Meislik's trees. Granted, he lives in an area that could receive frost at any moment. Part of the hobby for me is experimenting with what will help my trees grow their best and be as healthy as possible. So while people will tell me it's not worth it, this is part of the fun and I'll always do it.
Best of luck!
lieuz
Chumono
@Leo in N E Illinois good god man! that's a lot of plants. How do you water everything?
sorce
Nonsense Rascal
I just had to go buy more ass oil.....
Was gonna take em out then...4 degrees....
I might have to spray an inside.....
Friggin bogus!
Sounds like you're still with us Ryan!
That was a close call! It seemed.....
I'm with you bro!
Sorce
GrimLore
Bonsai Nut alumnus... we miss you
100% correct on that statement. I did find when making that room dedicated to indoor plants, wintering room for a few others, a whole lot of office plants, cactus, succulents, and more the best thing for air circulation is a ceiling fan running on low 7/24 in reverse. It works out well with the Humidifier and keeps all the different areas of the room constant. So far it records at 6 different micro climates and each do well where placed.
This Summer I am creating more by adding 32 running feet of shelf/light on one wall and 20 feet on the opposite one. If my readings are correct they will all be of similar quality to three existing micro climates giving me room to acquire several new species(to me) and house them properly.
What I have done the past several years though is before anything comes back into the house I treat each plant for insects above and below the soil for a few days and it seems to work so far.
Grimmy
Leo in N E Illinois
The Professor
- Messages
- 11,437
- Reaction score
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- USDA Zone
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"California Echo" ? - I grew up in the late 60's, & early 70's, but I can't remember, because I was really there. While I prefer to pretend none of my past actually happened, there is a reason I got into light gardening at a young age. Quickly discovered orchids grew well under lights, and carried no significant legal penalties.
