New Front for this Shimpaku

[Ang3lfir3]

Obviously this tool works...they sell.

Lol you as a business man know that just because it sells doesn't mean it works.... however some people have found ways to mitigate the damage these jacks an do.... personally i like the long arm benders and then just using guy wires to hold everything in place... makes me feel better.

too bad there aren't many places that sell them at more reasonable prices.

 

[grouper52]

Harry twisiting is one thing ... been there done that. What was drilled into my head is that when you put a 3 point jack on living tissue the pressure of the actual screw crushes the cambium. I'm not saying this is a bad technique but am wondering how people might get around that draw back. Obviously this tool works...they sell.

I've got the usual little set of four, and have used them over the years occasionally. I've never killed anything, yet, and of course I seldom worry about areas of "damage" to a tree (which they DO cause on occasion even with padding), but I just haven't been as impressed with their ability to do the job as well as they seem like they ought to. They work, but not as well for me as other methods most of the time. That's been my experience, anyway, but it may be that there is some way to get more pleasing results from them with more finesse than I have.

 

[irene_b]

Lol you as a business man know that just because it sells doesn't mean it works.... however some people have found ways to mitigate the damage these jacks an do.... personally i like the long arm benders and then just using guy wires to hold everything in place... makes me feel better.

too bad there aren't many places that sell them at more reasonable prices.

Reminds me of the one Behr modified years ago from one he found in a dumpster. It was a anti theft device called "the club".
Irene

 

[flor1]

Lol you as a business man know that just because it sells doesn't mean it works.... however some people have found ways to mitigate the damage these jacks an do.... personally i like the long arm benders and then just using guy wires to hold everything in place... makes me feel better.

too bad there aren't many places that sell them at more reasonable prices.

Go to Home Depot or Lowes you might be able to come up with something in the tool department like a adjustable wood clamp. Maybe even a tie down. Hope this helps.

 

[grouper52]

Sun was setting when this guy caught my eye and called out for a bit of quick trimming and wiring. Needs more work, but hey - don't we all.

Threw it in this Sarah Rainer pot last year - it's probably not a good match, but the pot is so beautiful I just had to put something in it.

 

[gergwebber]

i guess you want to show off the cool hole in the dead wood (its nice) but that stove pipe area looks like it arose from a need to expose the jins..... it would be good if a branch could be wrapped around to hide that spot, but that will affect the apex.... hmmmm thats a hard one

 

[october]

I like this tree very much

 

[grouper52]

Here's an update.

 

[october]

Hi grouper..Good to see you posting again. Looks good and I like the pot. Is there anyway to clear the mass at the front base of the trunk? Other than that and even that isn't bad, this is a really nice tree.

Rob

 

[Attila Soos]

Here's an update.

View attachment 34977

The problem I see is not the design, but the health of the tree. Junipers gain strength/vitality from their foliage (unlike pines, where root mass is the source of strenghth). This juniper is so stipped, that it must teter on the brink of comatose, and it will take a few years to re-gain its strength. Especially because it's a small tree.
It will likely survive, but you lose precious years because the tree is languishing. It's best to create new design while keeping lots of sacrifice banches on junipers.
With large trees, it's somewhat easier, just because of the sheer volume of wood that can produce foliage, but small trees are much more vulnerable.

It's a small detail that I used to ignore, but it can make a difference.

 

[grouper52]

The problem I see is not the design, but the health of the tree. Junipers gain strength/vitality from their foliage (unlike pines, where root mass is the source of strenghth). This juniper is so stipped, that it must teter on the brink of comatose, and it will take a few years to re-gain its strength. Especially because it's a small tree.
It will likely survive, but you lose precious years because the tree is languishing. It's best to create new design while keeping lots of sacrifice banches on junipers.
With large trees, it's somewhat easier, just because of the sheer volume of wood that can produce foliage, but small trees are much more vulnerable.

It's a small detail that I used to ignore, but it can make a difference.

Thanks for your thoughts, Attilla. The tree is actually quite healthy in the general sense of things, actually pushing new growth noticeably in the two weeks since I took the photo. I think doing this to a tree down where you live might be a bit riskier, but up here I seem to get away with it.

I do it because I like the look much better with trimming as opposed to pinching, finding the lush, dense look of pinched Shimpakus rather artificial for a tree that is trying to mimic the beat up old survivors one finds all over the desert Southwest.

I'm a bit puzzled by the notion of losing precious years. An old tree struggling for centuries on the edge of death is the very look I'm going for. The tree is already there - it's not going anywhere. The only way I'm losing anything is if it dies, but I think it will not be difficult to keep him on the living side of that edge if this is only done periodically, with periods of rest in between.

Still, I will keep your thoughts in mind, because truly "There Are Roughly Zones," and my techniques may have overstepped one.

Thanks for responding to a few of my posts, BTW. I hope you're doing well.

Will

 

[Attila Soos]

I'm a bit puzzled by the notion of losing precious years. An old tree struggling for centuries on the edge of death is the very look I'm going for. The tree is already there - it's not going anywhere. The only way I'm losing anything is if it dies, but I think it will not be difficult to keep him on the living side of that edge if this is only done periodically, with periods of rest in between.

What I meant, by losing years, is that in bonsai, the faster growing and the more vigorous the tree is, the faster we arrive to our design objectives. So, we want to speed up the growth, and not to slow down. Once the final branch structure is in place, along with the desired girth/taper, THEN we can slow down the growth.
In the case of this juniper, you are slowing it down before the structure is there. I am tempted to do the same thing with my junipers, but after many years, I am finding out from more experienced growers that this approach is too simplistic an lacks a deeper understanding of how to develop juniper bonsai in optimal time. By hard pruning a shimpaku, we are taking the longer, slower, and riskier approach. No reason for it, really. The consensus is that you should leave no less than around 60% of the foliage, in order no to interrupt the healthy vigor of the tree. Of course, most of that foliage will be gradually removed as we approach the final design, so for now, they are sacrifice branches.
BTW, when doing the same thing to a red(or black pine), which is hard pruning, the result is quite different: a strong flush of new growth. Same with deciduous trees. Junipers also respond with new growth, but the overall growth rate slows down considerably. This is where our mistake lies: to treat junipers the same way we treat other trees. The pinching vs pruning is not the issue here, nothing wrong with pruning.

The approach changes when the design is "finished", and slowing down the growth becomes appropriate, although I would not like to keep a tree anywhere near that edge that you re talking about, but rather make the impression that the tree is close to that edge. When the tree is truly on the edge (albeit on the right side of it), there is very little room for mistakes, or simply a random negative event.