New Elm Tree, Advice Wanted

[kornfeld]

Hello All,

My name is Phil, and I'm new to bonsai and new to the forums. I've messed around with several boxwood shrubs from nurseries just to practice pruning and wiring and such, but recently picked up this guy:



It's about 18 inches tall from the top of the pot to the top of the crown. It's pretty unkempt as it is, but I'm still really happy with it. I think I'll aim to eventually build some foliage pads that are more neat and tidy, like this:



I have two questions:

1. Is it a Chinese Elm, or something else? Here is a close up of a few leaves on the tree:



If I need to attach any other pictures to help identify it, please let me know.


2. I'm worried that the roots might have scale on them. Here's a picture:



The white areas look like scale I've seen in other pictures, but I wanted to get a second opinion. It somewhat resembles the photos posted about halfway down the page here. Assuming it is scale, what's the recommended path to follow to remove it? The site I linked to recommends scraping off what you can and using horticultural oil, but again, I thought I'd get a second opinion. Fortunately, I don't see anything further up the tree, just on the roots.


Thanks for any input, and I'm looking forward to working on this tree!

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

Welcome. Definitely a Chinese elm, maybe a corkbark Chinese elm.

The white scale is not likely insect, but hard water scale. Scale insects leave dark soot, and live on succulent growth...green leaf stems, stamen, and undersides of leaves. This looks like salt buildup or lime scale...far easier to treat!

 

[Redwood Ryan]

Welcome!


Yep, it's a Chinese Elm all right. You are keeping it outdoors, right? That's where it should be.

 

[kornfeld]

Thanks for the welcome and input, guys.

I'll try rinsing the buildup off with some water. Hopefully it does turn out to just be salt!

And I am keeping it outside during the day...but I carried it inside when I got home from work so I could enjoy it in the apartment! It's outside in a semi-shaded area under a larger tree, which I think will work based on what I've read.


Another question: I live in San Francisco, which means the seasons are a bit wacko. We don't have a lengthy cold winter, but we also don't have any issues with excessive heat. Will the lack of a winter be an issue for this tree? I have a book that says it isn't a big issue for this species, but am unsure.

 

[Brian Van Fleet]

The more outside you can keep it, the more better your tree will be
should be just fine outside all year in SFO.

 

[Redwood Ryan]

Lack of winter = lack of a rest, which can result in the tree literally growing itself to death, so it's best you give it a winters sleep.

 

[kornfeld]

Hmmmm....well I don't really have a way to store it in low temperatures for any lengthy period of time, so we'll have to see if the winters here work for it. Will keeping it completely shaded for a few months in the winter help at all?

 

[Zach Smith]

Thanks for the welcome and input, guys.

I'll try rinsing the buildup off with some water. Hopefully it does turn out to just be salt!

And I am keeping it outside during the day...but I carried it inside when I got home from work so I could enjoy it in the apartment! It's outside in a semi-shaded area under a larger tree, which I think will work based on what I've read.


Another question: I live in San Francisco, which means the seasons are a bit wacko. We don't have a lengthy cold winter, but we also don't have any issues with excessive heat. Will the lack of a winter be an issue for this tree? I have a book that says it isn't a big issue for this species, but am unsure.

Chinese elm is tough as nails, so you shouldn't need to worry about overwintering issues.

Your soil appears terrible, so a high priority next spring should be to replace it with a proper bonsai soil.

Good luck!

Zach

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Lack of winter = lack of a rest, which can result in the tree literally growing itself to death, so it's best you give it a winters sleep.

In this case I can honestly say that Chinese Elm is probably the single most forgiving tree species for bonsai. I have had Chinese Elms that I overwintered in an unheated garage in Chicago where they didn't see sunlight for 4+ months at a time, then I moved to Southern California where they have been without a hard winter for 16 years and still look great. However they DO drop their leaves - even in Southern California - and go bare for about two months.

 

[mat]

Lack of winter = lack of a rest, which can result in the tree literally growing itself to death, so it's best you give it a winters sleep.

Chinese elms here can be almost evergreens (no winter dormancy), and they seem to be fine with that. They definitely slow down but don't necessarily lose all their leaves. Spring comes, and they're off and running again.

 

[kornfeld]

Well, good to know that it's forgiving!

And the soil is definitely awful....it feels almost like it has some clay in it or something. Should I wait until spring to repot it, or take care of that earlier?

 

[Kevster]

My Chinese elm has been indoors during the winter and outside in summer for the past 2 years. I want it outside and plan on leaving it outside next year. It's just that the air layers I'm taking off of it are not ready yet.
Mine has not gone bare. The tree did slow down its growth around late spring then the leaves did turn and fall off but not all at once. It is very hardy and forgiving and though I have never taken mine from outside to inside every night I guess it would be ok since it got its dose of daylight already. I wouldn't recommend leaving it inside for a weekend though as the lack of humidity and sun light could start to make it unhappy.

I can't remember where you are from. Are you planning on wintering it inside?

 

[plant_dr]

San Francisco.

 

[kornfeld]

Yep, San Francisco...I just updated my profile to include that.

It'll start to stay outside more permanently once I get tired of carrying it back and forth. I was just enjoying it right after the purchase.

It'll be interesting to see what happens with the tree seeing as we swing from cold to warm on a weekly basis throughout the entire year. There really isn't any period of time that's guaranteed to be warm or cold. We'll see what happens!

 

[Kevster]

What is cold there? Cold here in Delaware is in the 20s and 30s. If it drops below 50-55 for a long period of time it will go into a dormant period.

 

[kornfeld]

The coldest it ever gets is high 30's/low 40's, and that's rare. We'll see how it handles the winter.

Is there any benefit to repotting it into better soil now without pruning any roots, or should I wait and do it all in one shot in the spring?

 

[kornfeld]

Bump...

I pulled the tree out of its pot to check out the soil and the sides and bottom of the roots, and it seems like the soil is pretty bad. The soil itself is like a very fine powder, and water just sits on the surface before soaking in. Once it does soak in, it does so very unevenly, and it's difficult to get the whole thing wet.

Would there be any benefit to repotting it into a larger pot with better soil now, but not pruning any roots? In the spring, I could then prune the roots, and pot it back into a bonsai pot with better soil. I think it'd have to go into a larger pot, because once I get most of the old soil out, I doubt I'd be able to repack all of the roots into the small pot.

Based on what I've read, it seems like the main reason to wait for spring is so that the roots are removed at the right time. I don't know if this is right or not, though.

So...any thoughts on repotting it now but not pruning any roots vs. just waiting until spring?

 

[Kevster]

I have done light root pruning to mine in the fall befor. By light I mean I pulled it from the pot raked out the roots a little and pruned anything long that wasn't needed by the tree and anything to long to fit back into the pot I took it out of.

Every tree can react different especially being in different regions.

You don't want to put it into a much larger pot. You then risk the roots sitting in water then rotting away.

 

[kornfeld]

Hmmm....well maybe I'll try to get rid of most of the soil, and then keep as much of the root system as I can fit back into the pot.

Anyone else have an experience or thought to share?

 

[cmeg1]

If it can be watered easily I would leave it till' spring,unless in your zone the temps are above 50 for like the next month ,then you could do a light root prune.It may lose some leaves,but would probably soon anyway.It will go dormant state in the 40's.I would put it in full sun and give plenty of water during the growing season.Like 5 hours at least direct sun.You could probably get rid of more soil if you wait till'spring as buds extend to re-pot.