NEED HELP WITH COPPER WIRE PLS

Agree with others. 20 is very small and only used for the smallest branches

I have anneled my own in a fire place. Get a good bed of coals going then put the wire in the coals and add more wood on top.
Remove the wire when it is a nice uniform bright orange and quench in a bucket (not necessary but makes handling it faster)
 
Up date...plastic frame removed pretty easy, and I have made several rolls of the wire with rubber on and will see if it burns off easily. If it doesn't, trash can it will be. Why was I thinking that 20 Gu was one size bigger than 18 Gu?
the smaller the number, bigger wire. 16 bigger than 20, 12 bigger than 16 etc
 
I’ve heard that the work hardening makes it more challenging to apply copper as if you mess it up, it’s challenging to redo. At what point should a beginner step up to copper for their conifers?
I'm a beginner, and I've found it useful to play with copper even though I'm not great at wiring yet. Knowing that I can't undo something makes me take my time and be more intentional about each piece of wire I put on the tree. You just have to be willing to cut off wire and start the piece over if you need to adjust it, unlike aluminum where you can redo the same piece.
 
Properly annealed copper wire is very easy to apply.
It's more flexible than a similar size aluminum, but if you don't have a ton of wiring practice, you'll inevitably make a number of mistakes that you need to fix. With aluminum, you can unwire part of the piece and reapply. With copper, you need to start the whole piece over.
 
If I make a mistake in wiring, it says on until I take it off, as long as it holds the branch in place that’s all that matters to me.
Thanks
 
I’ve heard that the work hardening makes it more challenging to apply copper as if you mess it up, it’s challenging to redo. At what point should a beginner step up to copper for their conifers?
Aluminum and copper wire have different characteristics. One is not necessarily better than the other, nor at todays pricing is one more expensive than the other in my expereience. The aluminum is generally easier to obtain due to the annealing process used to prepare for easier application for Bonsai purposes.
For those who would like to explore the myths of Wire use in Bonsai I recommend Michael Hagedorn's "Bonsai Heresy." pages 221`-234.
His explanations and references are clear and concise.
If you are wiring conifers that is the point I would recommend using copper! The strength is an advantage allowing you to use a smaller diameter wire than aluminum, the aesthetics of copper with age leaves a more pleasing look for display. And yes, wiring is often present when show trees are on display at even the highest levels such as Taikan Ten and Kokofu.
Aluminum has the advantage of softness and is very effective in larger diameter for soft barked deciduous. I also prefer aluminum for securing trees in pots.
I have not purchased bulk aluminum wire for production but I have purchased bulk copper for annealing and use in Bonsai. The annealing process is both simple and complex when working towards the best results. The temperature reached in the annealing process and the time spent ( based on gauge it varies) will change the resultant quality. Raw copper prices have increased greatly in the last five years. I noticed significant supplier price increase with each bulk order even when ordered within six months of the previous order. Most bulk rolls begin in lengths of 1,000 feet and up. Wholesalers usually base their pricing on minimum bulk orders ( combination of number of rolls and combined length) with pricing slightly cheaper for very large orders. Sizes that are mass produced and in high demand are considerably cheaper #10, #12, #14 than the sizes at either end of the spectrum #22 or #4 .
A major factor is shipping due to the weight of copper in comparison to the weight of aluminum. the Canadian market pays much higher shipping costs than are available in the USA. ( economy of scale) As a producer one way to moderate the cost is to provide kits that meet varying needs. For most beginners I suggest the "Starter Set" which consists of the middle range of sizes. Basically five sizes # 16, #14, #12, #10, #8. The second set is what I describe as a full set including nine sizes from #20 through to #4. So one roll of each. #4,#6,#8,#10.#12,#14,#16,#18,#20.
Pricing is generally comparable from most suppliers due to similar cost of acquisition and production. I would suggest the best value can be obtained from your closest supplier due to shipping costs and ease of procurement.
Just for comparison a full set is priced @ $225.00 CAD, Starter set $125 CAD. ( does not include shipping)
Note: for proper comparison one should consider length of wire included in each size and the range or number of sizes. It also helps if you understand the variation in cost dependant on gauge.
This is not a sales pitch, simply posting information from a production point of view. Most of the larger bonsai clubs can put an enthusiast in touch with a local supplier.
 
August,
I would strip it over burning it off. More control and less opportunity for a big mess.
Annealing is pretty easy to do, but like others have said 20 is athin gauge, so it may not be totally necessary to have to anneal it
I coil and put on grill at 600 for 15/20 min for thicker guages.
 
August,
I would strip it over burning it off. More control and less opportunity for a big mess.
Annealing is pretty easy to do, but like others have said 20 is a thin gauge, so it may not be totally necessary to have to anneal it
I coil and put on grill at 600 for 15/20 min for thicker gauges.
Hi Paul. Already burned it off over a low fire after I had rolled the wire into 5 separate 8" coils with the covering still on. The covering actually caught fire and just disappeared pretty fast. Then I annealed it using the same fire and the coals from it. I have a hand help, point a test thermometer that said it was anywhere from 1000-1250 F when I removed it.
 
Up date...plastic frame removed pretty easy, and I have made several rolls of the wire with rubber on and will see if it burns off easily. If it doesn't, trash can it will be. Why was I thinking that 20 Gu was one size bigger than 18 Gu?
No reason to toss it. Its still good for scaffold wire where you are using a thin wire to pull a branch down etc or to wire the plant into its pot or to wire in mesh screens or other places where you won't be relying on the more typical use. No need to anneal 20 gauge wire either, anyone saying it does doesn't have a clue... for future refence, annealing is to soften the wire, and only needs to be heated until it turns colour (blue) and not all the way till its glowing red. Copper wire can be re used many times.. as can aluminum wire but aluminum is much trickier to anneal as it more difficult to see the colour change and just melts into a blob...
 
The temperature for annealing copper wire is like discussing soils. Many different opinions when one looks it up. I just did and they go this way. 700 F, 842 F, 900F, 1202 F. Whatever works I guess. ;)
 
I've bought Mirai wire, and haven't noticed a difference in quality vs. other sources (grain of salt: I'm not very experienced, I may be missing something).

Adams Bonsai also has a starter kit for only $80. The rolls are different lengths and it's 8-20 gauge instead of 6-18, but if you really want 6 you can get a roll for another $25. The Adans price per foot is cheaper for all gauges than Mirai; some are close but Mirai is over double for a couple gauges.

I don't know about that $80 package, but if you look at the prices that I posted, while Mirai is over double the $102 package, you get more than 1.5x wire on 12,14,16,18, 125 feet vs 50. you also get double on 8 ga and 10 more on 6 ga. If you add all that extra wire the price is way cheaper. Like I said, bundle per bundle Mirai is way more expensive. As a package it is not.
 
I don't know about that $80 package, but if you look at the prices that I posted, while Mirai is over double the $102 package, you get more than 1.5x wire on 12,14,16,18, 125 feet vs 50. you also get double on 8 ga and 10 more on 6 ga. If you add all that extra wire the price is way cheaper. Like I said, bundle per bundle Mirai is way more expensive. As a package it is not.
... Mirai is still more expensive. You can't get the lengths to line up exactly without using weird multiples, but using Adams/McKinney roll by roll prices (their discount for the bundle is relatively small):

You can get 2 each of #6-#10 and 3 each of #12-#18 for $243, which is a total of 132 feet more wire.

If you were able to buy partials of each A/M roll to get the exact amount of each gauge Mirai sells, it would be $202. While not THAT much more, unless there's a difference in quality I'm unaware of, I'll gladly take that $33 and get another roll or 2 of A/M wire.
 
With aluminum, you can unwire part of the piece and reapply. With copper, you need to start the whole piece over.
Why do you consider this to be a true statement? With aluminum you back up to the area you wish to correct, the same as copper. The difference is copper is more difficult to reapply due to work hardening. So the effort is greater. Both types of wire will show that they have been adjusted, because both show evidence of previous twisting. Both can easily be straightened with proper technique and the copper can be annealed again before using.
 
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