My Indoor growing/dormancy experiments
- Thread starter JasonRedwood
- Start date
rockm
Spuds Moyogi
What I'm saying is that Brent IS one of The Sources for bonsai info. His experience is vast and long and he's a very good horticulturalist on his own--his livelihood depends on that.
There are no scientific studies of how bonsai should be done. Trying to apply lab results to trees in a bonsai pot is a fool's errand. The two are hardly the same.
Anthony
Imperial Masterpiece
Jelle,
the results of the experiments. [ Title ]
Has to be assessed by years, not months.
Good Day
Anthony
the results of the experiments. [ Title ]
Has to be assessed by years, not months.
Good Day
Anthony
leatherback
The Treedeemer
makes sense now. Thx! And yes. I agree.
JasonRedwood
Mame
Wow you guys just don't want to do anything other than complain. I knew posting on this forum again would yield less than desirable results, but i did not think a community like this would sit and just continuously attack someone for doing something different.
If you feel the need to bitch about what you think i do or do not understand be my guest, I am no longer going to respond to ad hominem crap - I posted this to gather constructive thoughts on the subject, not for everyone complain and say science is not real. Nobody has brought to me evidence that what I am doing is not sound, instead, we're all just complaining about what is or is not good science, what is or is not bullshit, and who or who does not know about bonsai.
I do want to defend two things before I stop responding.
1) It is stupid to work in absolutes. I never said I was ONLY using science. I even stated that if someone's work agrees with other work (scientific or non) that is alright with me. Good job trying to attack me by making up YOUR argument.
2) Experience does not matter for identifying bullshit. I am not a chemist, but if someone tells me they can transmute butter to gold, i can tell that is bullshit - oversimplified, sure, but my point stands. If someone tells me plants actually grow better upside down, I am going to think more about that, and not just accept it as true. Furthermore, as a science (And i really don't care what your definition of a scientists is. From the minute you finish a bachelor's degree in science, you are a scientist - if not earlier), it is my job to be able to, not just in my field, but in any to detect poorly cited information. It is not specific to physics, any person with any amount of education if thinking critically can find the things that need to be looked into further.
That being said, I'm going to stop responding to random attacks on myself. Let's try to be nicer to each other and not use the internet as some hate-veil to try to push around our own views. I simply wanted to post some methods I am using in hopes others could add to them, or start a good conversation about bonsai techniques that differ from the norm. I did not intend for this to be a "do things my way, or i'm going to call you an idiot" rant fest.
If you feel the need to bitch about what you think i do or do not understand be my guest, I am no longer going to respond to ad hominem crap - I posted this to gather constructive thoughts on the subject, not for everyone complain and say science is not real. Nobody has brought to me evidence that what I am doing is not sound, instead, we're all just complaining about what is or is not good science, what is or is not bullshit, and who or who does not know about bonsai.
I do want to defend two things before I stop responding.
1) It is stupid to work in absolutes. I never said I was ONLY using science. I even stated that if someone's work agrees with other work (scientific or non) that is alright with me. Good job trying to attack me by making up YOUR argument.
2) Experience does not matter for identifying bullshit. I am not a chemist, but if someone tells me they can transmute butter to gold, i can tell that is bullshit - oversimplified, sure, but my point stands. If someone tells me plants actually grow better upside down, I am going to think more about that, and not just accept it as true. Furthermore, as a science (And i really don't care what your definition of a scientists is. From the minute you finish a bachelor's degree in science, you are a scientist - if not earlier), it is my job to be able to, not just in my field, but in any to detect poorly cited information. It is not specific to physics, any person with any amount of education if thinking critically can find the things that need to be looked into further.
That being said, I'm going to stop responding to random attacks on myself. Let's try to be nicer to each other and not use the internet as some hate-veil to try to push around our own views. I simply wanted to post some methods I am using in hopes others could add to them, or start a good conversation about bonsai techniques that differ from the norm. I did not intend for this to be a "do things my way, or i'm going to call you an idiot" rant fest.
JoeR
Masterpiece
Well everyone here also swears up and down you cannot get good results growing in just a south facing window and you need a fancy thousand dollar light setup and all this other stuff buttt I know that is not true.
I get awesome results growing inside, no fancy setup. Though I actually did set up two additional grow lights this year because I had more trees than space.. but the lights are crappy $15 walmart GLs. I mist them 3+ times a day by hand (once when I get up, when I come home, and before bed). I have thought about building a greenhouse setup or something.
I get awesome results growing inside, no fancy setup. Though I actually did set up two additional grow lights this year because I had more trees than space.. but the lights are crappy $15 walmart GLs. I mist them 3+ times a day by hand (once when I get up, when I come home, and before bed). I have thought about building a greenhouse setup or something.
JasonRedwood
Mame
@JoeR Do you know the power output of your lights (wattage), i'm just curious. My lights are also not expensive. The 4 T5 lights were around $50, but they're sturdy and good.
Also, how do you mist yours? I use the $1 spray bottles from Target, thoroughly once a day. What kind of 'soil' do you use? Like i said in the post, I do not have trouble with the run off from the misting, but I do only mist once a day - My plants could probably appreciate more misting, especially my tropical.
Also, what kind of greenhouse stuff have you thought about? I have thought about just using plastic sheeting to make a tent over my lights/plant table, but i'm not sure if it's worth it (and wouldn't look as good in my apartment).
Thanks for the non-hateful comment.
Also, how do you mist yours? I use the $1 spray bottles from Target, thoroughly once a day. What kind of 'soil' do you use? Like i said in the post, I do not have trouble with the run off from the misting, but I do only mist once a day - My plants could probably appreciate more misting, especially my tropical.
Also, what kind of greenhouse stuff have you thought about? I have thought about just using plastic sheeting to make a tent over my lights/plant table, but i'm not sure if it's worth it (and wouldn't look as good in my apartment).
Thanks for the non-hateful comment.
JoeR
Masterpiece
The lights are 17 watts I think, so 34 watts together.
I mist using a spray bottle I stole from my brothers cleaning business, its just a cheap one.
I am trying new soil components (like #8822) but it also depends on species. My standard mix is pumice/lava/bark in various proportions. Drains immediately.
I will post a picture tomorrow of the possible greenhouse configuration I have thought about.
I am by no means an expert, this is just what has worked for me. Take it with a grain of salt
Edit: Let me also add that I only grow tropicals like this, not maples and junipers.
Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
Easiest DIY greenhouse I ever used was a PVC frame wrapped in paint drop cloth. Simple and super effective.
JoeR
Masterpiece
Yep, thats what I made. Under $20 and its 5×3×3.
JasonRedwood
Mame
@JoeR Definitely - I am just glad someone else is trying some similar things. I think I am going to try out a pumice/lava/bark mix next time I repot. #8822 is what i'm using now, with just bark. And actually, the bark was a lot less water retentive than I thought it would be. I actually planted some cuttings in pure bark to see what would happen, and they dried out even though i was keeping a very close eye on them (They were compared to cuttings in just d.earth). I'll look forward to seeing a picture of that if you don't mind.
@Redwood Ryan Do you know what kind of plants whomever made that was growing? I still wonder about the effectiveness for plant health - in my situation where my apartment isn't that dry. I have two cheap humidity meters, one outside, and one near my plants - and obviously it's completely dry outdoors right now (or the meter froze), but the indoor meter reads 50% - whatever that might mean. I wish i had a humidity gauge with PPM or something.
For one of my ficus's I will be trying to grow aerial roots (In a few years mind you), so i'll need something for that regardless if I don't have a patio by then. Minnesota is extremely humid for the months a ficus could be outside.
@Redwood Ryan Do you know what kind of plants whomever made that was growing? I still wonder about the effectiveness for plant health - in my situation where my apartment isn't that dry. I have two cheap humidity meters, one outside, and one near my plants - and obviously it's completely dry outdoors right now (or the meter froze), but the indoor meter reads 50% - whatever that might mean. I wish i had a humidity gauge with PPM or something.
For one of my ficus's I will be trying to grow aerial roots (In a few years mind you), so i'll need something for that regardless if I don't have a patio by then. Minnesota is extremely humid for the months a ficus could be outside.
Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
I did it. I was growing Ficus. You have to be careful with these kinds of setups though. Too much humidity can cause fungal issues, so you have to make sure you have air movement and fresh air going in and out.
JasonRedwood
Mame
@Redwood Ryan That's exactly what i was going to be worried about. What did you do for air circulation? I am thinking maybe a small computer fan, or other small fan on low through the side of the plastic could work. Also, did you have the whole thing enclosed?
Redwood Ryan
Masterpiece
The whole thing was enclosed. A piece of plexiglass with a T5 sitting on top provided light (and some heat). I used a fan to move air around, but eventually gave up on these kinds of setups because they were just too much trouble. Now my trees just sit out in the room with 32% humidity.
JasonRedwood
Mame
Have you noticed any huge difference without the setup? I do have all my plants in the same location - so some of the transpired moisture should hang around them anyway.
Brian Van Fleet
Pretty Fly for a Bonsai Guy
This may become an interesting thread once you have a few years under your belt, and begin to use that experience to adjust your positions. That's why so many here are staunch defenders of Brent. Why start with 1 year of experience when we can borrow his 30?
On topic, My "tropical setup" is an East window in the basement. Once a week, if I remember, I take it outside and soak it down with a hose. Stupid thing keeps growing, must be doing something wrong.
On topic, My "tropical setup" is an East window in the basement. Once a week, if I remember, I take it outside and soak it down with a hose. Stupid thing keeps growing, must be doing something wrong.
JoeR
Masterpiece
This is something I built from scraps that I had laying around; only thing I bought was the drop cloth. This isnt for my inside tropicals though.
Structure is done, have to add ventilation, misters, etc. now. Plastic is folded much better on the other side.
Structure is done, have to add ventilation, misters, etc. now. Plastic is folded much better on the other side.
GrimLore
Bonsai Nut alumnus... we miss you
We have a room for plants, none are enclosed in anything. They are all just under lights as needed. For air circulation we have a ceiling fan running on low in reverse 24 hours a day all Winter when they are indoors. There is also a humidifier running throughout the heating season. The air moves just enough you can notice it especially in any area about 2 feet away from any wall.
Grimmy
JasonRedwood
Mame
@Brian Van Fleet Is that a willow leaf ficus? That's awesome that it's growing so well even without lighting. My two ficus's also do very well.
@JoeR I like how simple that is. I may have to use that as a model if I do end up making an enclosure for my indoor plants.
@JoeR I like how simple that is. I may have to use that as a model if I do end up making an enclosure for my indoor plants.
JoeR
Masterpiece
For tall plants I would actually make it square to maximize space instead of a dome like mine. I built mine for a lot of small cuttings.
