My first Bonsai. Aleppo Pine, from seed. Guidance going forward

[Bejzu]

Let it grow another year. Next year, wire the current apex to be your first low branch and wire a side shoot as new leader.

I feel like if I wait another year it would harder/more difficult to make this bend. Would such a bend have to take place at one go or in parts? My tree seems to have a lot of branches for just 29cm of length. See picture


My bottom branches are also quite long (17cm) and also have shoots.

 

[Orion_metalhead]

With the right size wire you shouldnt have a problem bending the trunk.

 

[Bejzu]

So here are some updated pictures of my aleppo pine which is roughly a year old.

I have no experience with pines so I'm not sure how promote new growth where I want it or how to promote ramification, where I want it.

Any tips going forward?

 

[Esolin]

It looks super happy and healthy for now. When they are this young and healthy they are very forgiving. How big of a tree are you going for? If you want something with a really thick trunk, you won't need to worry about ramification for a long time.

Here is an excellent video that talks about developing shohin size pines. The same principles apply to larger size trees. It should give you a good idea of how to proceed with your vision.

 

[Grunge_Bonsai]

I have not read the whole thread — have you wired the trunk yet?

If not, I would add 3 mil aluminum wire and give the bottom 1/2 to 2/3 of the trunk some movement. Avoid crushing needles where possible.

Forgive me if I am wrong, as I am not familiar with Aleppos, but branches may form from between needles on the trunk. You just want to avoid damaging buds where you may want branches later.

Leaving barred branches (or any branches) near the base as sacrifice branches will promote trunk flair.

Again, not sure what has been covered. Looks like a happy, healthy tree!

PS. If you look into literature for Japanese Black Pines, often the advice given can correlate to other pines (caveat emptor - definitely not always). Bonsaify.com offers a shohin black pine course that I have found to be very informative.

Best,

 

[Bejzu]

I have not read the whole thread — have you wired the trunk yet?

If not, I would add 3 mil aluminum wire and give the bottom 1/2 to 2/3 of the trunk some movement. Avoid crushing needles where possible.

Forgive me if I am wrong, as I am not familiar with Aleppos, but branches may form from between needles on the trunk. You just want to avoid damaging buds where you may want branches later.

Leaving barred branches (or any branches) near the base as sacrifice branches will promote trunk flair.

Again, not sure what has been covered. Looks like a happy, healthy tree!

PS. If you look into literature for Japanese Black Pines, often the advice given can correlate to other pines (caveat emptor - definitely not always). Bonsaify.com offers a shohin black pine course that I have found to be very informative.

Best,

I have just let it grow during the winter and its very bushy now. Will post pictures later when Im home. No wiring or pruning yet. I am a novice so I want to make sure I don't do anything I will regret. I have not seen candles yet, which I would expect to show in the upcoming months. Base of trunk is now approximately 2cm diameter. Very full and I have a mix of mature needles and new juvenile needles now coming out. It is a little annoying as they look different. The old mature needles are longer and a lighter green, while the juvenile ones are shorter and darker green. As I said, pictures later today.

 

[Bejzu]

Here are some pictures. Any advice on pruning at this stage would greatly be appreciated. Tree is 36 cm high from base. As you can see it is very full and bushy. Trunk is not perfectly straight but repotting should give me room adjust accordingly.

As you can see if have this weird mix of mature (longer light green) and juvenile (shorter dark green) needles and I have no idea how to manage them.

The lower branches also have other branches in them. The ends of all the branches all have new juvenile growth. I need to pluck away the brown needles on the inner side of the tree. Any suggestions going forward. I feel like I need to reduce some branches. Is that the right thing to do at this stage?

Cheers

 

[Esolin]

As you can see if have this weird mix of mature (longer light green) and juvenile (shorter dark green) needles and I have no idea how to manage them.

This is the primary challenge when using Aleppo for bonsai. They are very prone to producing juvenile foliage. Even when they are older, if you prune heavily, they throw out back buds with little juvenile needles, followed later by big mature needles. Maintaining 'all juvenile', or 'all mature' is very tricky since bonsai techniques require frequent pruning, which encourages a mix of both. I know you haven't been trimming yours yet, but young trees like your also naturally produce this mix as they grow and mature. It's normal.

It's still looking very healthy, but also very dense. I don't think much light is getting to the trunk, which will cause the interior needles and branches to dies off. You don't typically want that to happen in bonsai, since you want to maintain foliage close to the trunk. If it were mine, I would remove 1/3 of the branches to give it some 'air'. I know it's still early for designing, so choosing which to remove might be tough, but I'd look for areas where a lot of branches coming from one area, or from one side of the tree, and remove a few to balance out the distribution of branches up and down the trunk. With a tree this young, it's hard to make any serious mistakes. It will bleed a little sap, but heal quickly.

 

[Bejzu]

Q

If it were mine, I would remove 1/3 of the branches to give it some 'air'. I know it's still early for designing, so choosing which to remove might be tough, but I'd look for areas where a lot of branches coming from one area, or from one side of the tree, and remove a few to balance out the distribution of branches up and down the trunk.

This is exactly my thought. Nice to get matching feedback will also pluck away the brown needles towards the center closer to the trunk.

Would you consider repotting and pruning at the same time?

 

[Esolin]

Would you consider repotting and pruning at the same time?

With a young healthy tree like yours it should be fine to do both at once. Young pines are very tolerate of root work at most times of the year, although I wouldn't repot if it's super hot. If you're in the middle of summer, maybe wait until Autumn. It's old pines that can be fussy and need more consideration/caution. When you do repot, don't remove too many fine feeder roots or damage any more than you have to. If there are any big coarse tap roots, it's fine to cut those back to encourage it to produce more small and medium size feeder roots. The strength of a pine is in its roots. Lots of healthy roots = healthy pine.

 

[Bejzu]

The real heat is probably about a month away. So may consider..

 

[NateDyk47]

As you can see if have this weird mix of mature (longer light green) and juvenile (shorter dark green) needles and I have no idea how to manage them.

I'm not an expert on Aleppo Pine, but I'd recommend not worrying about this whole the tree's in development. Focus on growing the trunk and branches to the size you want and manage the foliage once it's closer to refinement.

 

[NateDyk47]

Another thing I'll mention - I saw a ways back in the thread you were concerned about how tall the tree was getting compared to your vision for the ultimate height of the tree. There's nothing wrong with growing out the leader as a sacrifice and chopping it off later. If this were my tree, I'd also be removing some of the branches coming off the trunk. It's really dense right now and I wouldn't want all of those in the final design.

 

[Bejzu]

Another thing I'll mention - I saw a ways back in the thread you were concerned about how tall the tree was getting compared to your vision for the ultimate height of the tree. There's nothing wrong with growing out the leader as a sacrifice and chopping it off later. If this were my tree, I'd also be removing some of the branches coming off the trunk. It's really dense right now and I wouldn't want all of those in the final design.

Agreed . My next step is to choose the ones I like and reduce crowding of branches drastically.

 

[Bejzu]

So, after a bit of pruning, I think I've decided on the front of the tree. I still feel like I need to remove some more branches but at least this is a start.

 

[Bejzu]

In the first picture of my previous post, I don't like the two lowest branches on the right hand side which are directly above one another.

Would you suggest I remove one immediately or leave them behind as a sacrifice branch and remove later?

Or maybe wire them in different directions?

 

[Esolin]

I agree they look odd, kind of like an echo. I don't know anything about styling formal upright trees, so I couldn't tell you which is better to keep from a design-planning aspect. But I personally would probably remove the lower branch. Why? Well there's a branch even lower that you can use as a sacrifice branch if you like, and often conifers look best when the branches are wired slightly downward, as if sagging with age, so that upper branch may eventually 'inhabit' the space of the lower branch.

 

[Bejzu]

Another question. Do candles develop yearly? This tree is just over a year and a half (from seed). I haven't seen them yet.

 

[Esolin]

You probably won't start to see candles until the tree is 3 or 4 years old, and only on branches you let run.

The trees below are about 5 years old. Where I've chopped, they've exploded with juvenile growth. Where I've let long sacrifice branches run, they've produced some mature candles. But they don't ever seem to candle as prolifically as Japanese Black pines.



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[Bejzu]

Updated picture of my Aleppo after some pruning. It was well overgrown. .don't have a before picture. Has been outside after very hot summer so bit brownish.

Suggestions at this point. Have placed in a larger pot