Mugo grafted onto Ponderosa?

[PonderingSage:]

Has anybody tried grafting Mugo onto Ponderosa pine?
If so, what were the results?
I’m considering my options for next winter/spring?
I picked up a mugo(mops) and the foliage is nice…especially for smaller pondos
I would love to hear what other peoples experiences were.

 

[misfit11]

Personally, I would use JBP over Mugo. If you're going to go through all the trouble of grafting, it just makes more sense. It's a double flush pine so it will develop "quicker". JBP also is tried and true as a bonsai subject, therefore, there's tons of info out there for It's care. I've grafted with Black Pine a bit and I've had pretty good success getting the scions to take. I've never grafted with Mugo, so I can't speak to its success as a grafting subject. I realize that Mugo has nice small needles, but Black Pine responds very well to bonsai techniques (specifically candle cutting) and the needles will reduce very well. I know there's a lot of people on here that really like Mugo Pine, but, honestly I've seen very few nice ones (Vance Wood has some very nice ones but he's the exception). The really nice Mugo Pines out there are collected ones from Europe. You can make a nice bonsai with JBP (esp. if you've got some nice Ponderosas to graft on to!).

That's my two cents.

 

[PonderingSage:]

Personally, I would use JBP over Mugo. If you're going to go through all the trouble of grafting, it just makes more sense. It's a double flush pine so it will develop "quicker". JBP also is tried and true as a bonsai subject, therefore, there's tons of info out there for It's care. I've grafted with Black Pine a bit and I've had pretty good success getting the scions to take. I've never grafted with Mugo, so I can't speak to its success as a grafting subject. I realize that Mugo has nice small needles, but Black Pine responds very well to bonsai techniques (specifically candle cutting) and the needles will reduce very well. I know there's a lot of people on here that really like Mugo Pine, but, honestly I've seen very few nice ones (Vance Wood has some very nice ones but he's the exception). The really nice Mugo Pines out there are collected ones from Europe. You can make a nice bonsai with JBP (esp. if you've got some nice Ponderosas to graft on to!).

That's my two cents.

Thanks for the advise. Yeah, l was planning on JBP for grafting as well. But as of now l just have 3yr seedlings growing out in grow bags.

 

[Colorado]

Personally, I would use JBP over Mugo. If you're going to go through all the trouble of grafting, it just makes more sense. It's a double flush pine so it will develop "quicker". JBP also is tried and true as a bonsai subject, therefore, there's tons of info out there for It's care. I've grafted with Black Pine a bit and I've had pretty good success getting the scions to take. I've never grafted with Mugo, so I can't speak to its success as a grafting subject. I realize that Mugo has nice small needles, but Black Pine responds very well to bonsai techniques (specifically candle cutting) and the needles will reduce very well. I know there's a lot of people on here that really like Mugo Pine, but, honestly I've seen very few nice ones (Vance Wood has some very nice ones but he's the exception). The really nice Mugo Pines out there are collected ones from Europe. You can make a nice bonsai with JBP (esp. if you've got some nice Ponderosas to graft on to!).

That's my two cents.

How would grafting JBP versus Mugo impact cold hardiness?

Would it still be very cold hardy either way because of the ponderosa root stock? Or would it need to be wintered to cater to the JBP foliage?

 

[PonderingSage:]

Yeah that’s a good question. I think about Ryan‘s fire hose garden hose analogy. I would think it would act more like a Ponderosa?
@Colorado is anyone out there Grafting mugo onto pondo.?
… this is me mostly getting pumped for fall collecting

 

[Colorado]

@Colorado is anyone out there Grafting mugo onto pondo.?

No idea! Guess there’s only one way to find out if it works

 

[Lorax7]

I’ve grafted JWP onto Ponderosa and had initial success (grafts swelled at the graft union), but it seems that, ultimately, my effort failed. It was my first time grafting anything though, so I think the failure was due to human error on my part in aftercare rather than an error in the grafting step itself. Actually, I’m not 100% certain of the failure at this point but think that’s most likely what has happened. I’ll be certain of the failure if it still doesn’t leaf out from the grafted bits next spring. If I am right and it did indeed fall, I intend to try again at some point.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

How would grafting JBP versus Mugo impact cold hardiness?

Would it still be very cold hardy either way because of the ponderosa root stock? Or would it need to be wintered to cater to the JBP foliage?

I have some kotobuki on scots roots that seem to survive winters well and also are a bit more lenient when it comes to wet weather.
Mugo is cold hardy as hell after it's frozen over. Because it's a high alpine species I believe it can tolerate the harshest of winters.

Using jbp roots is tricky in my opinion. I don't like jbp because it has consistently performed worse than any European and US pine I've grown (rigida, banksiana, ponderosa). If anything, I'd go with Japanese Red Pine. They seem to be way more forgiving over here and have a higher tolerance than JBP.
I'm even going as far as considering JBP the princess of bonsai because they die if you look at them wrong. They need silk gloves and constant alertness in my backyard or they'll simply give up on life.

 

[Paradox]

Has anybody tried grafting Mugo onto Ponderosa pine?
If so, what were the results?
I’m considering my options for next winter/spring?
I picked up a mugo(mops) and the foliage is nice…especially for smaller pondos
I would love to hear what other peoples experiences were.

My question is why you want to do this?
Mugo is plenty cold hardy for your area?

Are you trying to put mugo foliage on a ponderosa trunk?

 

[PonderingSage:]

My question is why you want to do this?
Mugo is plenty cold hardy for your area?

Are you trying to put mugo foliage on a ponderosa trunk?

Yeah, grafting mugo foliage onto ponderosa stock. That way l don't have to always be on the search for large pondos when I’m in the mountains. There are often times smaller ones that due to scale and needle length wouldn’t be convincing otherwise.

 

[pandacular]

I would be really curious to see it. JBP is probably safer, but I'm always in favor of people trying new stuff. Are you interested specifically in a winter hardier mugo, essentially ?

 

[PonderingSage:]

I would be really curious to see it. JBP is probably safer, but I'm always in favor of people trying new stuff. Are you interested specifically in a winter hardier mugo, essentially ?

No, I’m not too concerned about winter it is more about needle length.
I’m surprised other folks haven’t experimented more with this.
Especially after reading mugo posts here about them having a central trunk as there main challenge as nursery stock.

 

[Lorax7]

No, I’m not too concerned about winter it is more about needle length.
I’m surprised other folks haven’t experimented more with this.
Especially after reading mugo posts here about them having a central trunk as there main challenge as nursery stock.

I would think the main reason folks aren’t grafting mugo, specifically, onto Ponderosa is just that there are other alternatives that seem more appealing. For example, I like mugo well enough, but I truly love the foliage of JWP (both the appearance of it and the softness and non-pokey nature of the needles), so that’s what I grafted onto my Ponderosa (or, at least, tried to). Others may opt for JBP or JRP because of the development advantages of working with a double flush pine.

 

[pandacular]

No, I’m not too concerned about winter it is more about needle length.

I was just at the Rocky Mountain Bonsai Society's Exhibition this weekend, and I was amazed at the needle reduction on ponderosa that some of the artists had achieved. This is a ponderosa by RMBS's artist of the year, Mike Britten.