Monster cork bark elm update

[tmmason10]

How did this one look after the leaves dropped? I am really pondering getting one of these. You have only had it for one year?

 

[Smoke]

Nothing will be cut back for now so the branches can thicken. How big is this tree ?
View attachment 36661

Awesome ! !
I am going outside to mine in the ground and going ahead and NOT cutting them back!

My branches have to grow grow grow and get chunky for this tree.

Not trying to out guess your growing methods on these, but I am wondering how you grow these larger branches down low by not pruning them. I totally understand how the method works, no cutting larger wood.

My observation is that when allowed to bolt and gain size in girth, when the branch is finally cut back, the size difference at the chop is such that it always looks funny. I found super fast on tridents, which grow much the same way as fast growing elms, especially rough bark elms, that chopping back the current years growth allows me to build a more evenly tapered branch than bolting and trying to spend years making it blend in.

I find that when I cut the branch at the end of the years growth, and allow it to bud and fork, I get additional secondary branches and then choose a new leader and let that grow unrestrained for the next season and then chop back the next year again allowing me to build secondaries all along the way while maintaining girth building evenly. With a bolt to the desired size over a number of years and lopping off four feet of extension, the large branch stub does not seem to ever blend in. The secondary will grow and the primary bolt will grow but they always stay far apart, if that makes sense. There is no taper building thru chops to keep the transition even.

Further, bolting on an elm will give you a stove pipe two feet long with no taper what so ever Exacerbating the issue. Take a look at this cork bark elm and the large first branch that was on the tree when I dug it. It was 3 feet long and cut off at the dig time. I am trying to salvage that branch but am not entirely happy with what I see. I think it is always going to look strange. I am thinking of cutting it off and starting over with a first branch. I will see what one more year does, since last year was a dig year and not really settled in.

Also, since I have a ten month growing season with good hot summers, I get really hard growth. I can probably double growth you get in the North east. Maybe none of this has to do with a shorter growing season. I still have elms pushing shoots right now, Dec. fifth.

OK, nuff about me and branches. This is one hell of a monster elm. Superb taper and really compact and powerful. Will watch as you take it thru the seasons.

 

[youngsai]

I know people will hate me for this, but I totally think that tree would look so much better with a huge craggy hollow, am I crazy? It's beautiful either way, but still I would love to see what Kevin willson would do with this tree, yea?

 

[cmeg1]

I have one of the yatsubusa's from Brent.I do not have experience growing branches of this size really.I have not given it the most thought yet,but at some point I may just lop of the big branch on the bottom close to the trunk and change it's direction.Right now I can only reflect on what I read about the Lingnan grow and clip technique in Koreshoff's book to build the bones of my tree.That could take quite a long time,or perhaps it will go much quicker than I anticipate or I will be satisfied with a different approach.Actually ,right of the bat I am thinking like eight years to get the undulating thick branches I want on mine.To just change the direction here and there and let them taper along the way and grow into each other,I actually find that sort of style intreaging.
Great thread by the way,Dave.Thanks!

Good point Smoke.

 

[davetree]

Not trying to out guess your growing methods on these, but I am wondering how you grow these larger branches down low by not pruning them. I totally understand how the method works, no cutting larger wood.

My observation is that when allowed to bolt and gain size in girth, when the branch is finally cut back, the size difference at the chop is such that it always looks funny. I found super fast on tridents, which grow much the same way as fast growing elms, especially rough bark elms, that chopping back the current years growth allows me to build a more evenly tapered branch than bolting and trying to spend years making it blend in.

I find that when I cut the branch at the end of the years growth, and allow it to bud and fork, I get additional secondary branches and then choose a new leader and let that grow unrestrained for the next season and then chop back the next year again allowing me to build secondaries all along the way while maintaining girth building evenly. With a bolt to the desired size over a number of years and lopping off four feet of extension, the large branch stub does not seem to ever blend in. The secondary will grow and the primary bolt will grow but they always stay far apart, if that makes sense. There is no taper building thru chops to keep the transition even.

Further, bolting on an elm will give you a stove pipe two feet long with no taper what so ever Exacerbating the issue. Take a look at this cork bark elm and the large first branch that was on the tree when I dug it. It was 3 feet long and cut off at the dig time. I am trying to salvage that branch but am not entirely happy with what I see. I think it is always going to look strange. I am thinking of cutting it off and starting over with a first branch. I will see what one more year does, since last year was a dig year and not really settled in.

Also, since I have a ten month growing season with good hot summers, I get really hard growth. I can probably double growth you get in the North east. Maybe none of this has to do with a shorter growing season. I still have elms pushing shoots right now, Dec. fifth.

OK, nuff about me and branches. This is one hell of a monster elm. Superb taper and really compact and powerful. Will watch as you take it thru the seasons.

I agree completely with you. I can already see that I need to cut back at least yearly, maybe more often. I think cutting back elms frequently seems to be good for them, as well as building a better branch. The best branches I have were cut back farther and earlier, the ones that were allowed to extend are not as good.

 

[sam]

yes

Not trying to out guess your growing methods on these, but I am wondering how you grow these larger branches down low by not pruning them. I totally understand how the method works, no cutting larger wood.

My observation is that when allowed to bolt and gain size in girth, when the branch is finally cut back, the size difference at the chop is such that it always looks funny. I found super fast on tridents, which grow much the same way as fast growing elms, especially rough bark elms, that chopping back the current years growth allows me to build a more evenly tapered branch than bolting and trying to spend years making it blend in.

I find that when I cut the branch at the end of the years growth, and allow it to bud and fork, I get additional secondary branches and then choose a new leader and let that grow unrestrained for the next season and then chop back the next year again allowing me to build secondaries all along the way while maintaining girth building evenly. With a bolt to the desired size over a number of years and lopping off four feet of extension, the large branch stub does not seem to ever blend in. The secondary will grow and the primary bolt will grow but they always stay far apart, if that makes sense. There is no taper building thru chops to keep the transition even.

Further, bolting on an elm will give you a stove pipe two feet long with no taper what so ever Exacerbating the issue. Take a look at this cork bark elm and the large first branch that was on the tree when I dug it. It was 3 feet long and cut off at the dig time. I am trying to salvage that branch but am not entirely happy with what I see. I think it is always going to look strange. I am thinking of cutting it off and starting over with a first branch. I will see what one more year does, since last year was a dig year and not really settled in.

Also, since I have a ten month growing season with good hot summers, I get really hard growth. I can probably double growth you get in the North east. Maybe none of this has to do with a shorter growing season. I still have elms pushing shoots right now, Dec. fifth.

OK, nuff about me and branches. This is one hell of a monster elm. Superb taper and really compact and powerful. Will watch as you take it thru the seasons.

thanks al.
your branch building technique works well with bougainvillea (and other species, as well). might take longer to gain thickness, however, you're building a better branch(es) in the long run.

best wishes, sam

 

[nathanbs]

Not trying to out guess your growing methods on these, but I am wondering how you grow these larger branches down low by not pruning them. I totally understand how the method works, no cutting larger wood.

My observation is that when allowed to bolt and gain size in girth, when the branch is finally cut back, the size difference at the chop is such that it always looks funny. I found super fast on tridents, which grow much the same way as fast growing elms, especially rough bark elms, that chopping back the current years growth allows me to build a more evenly tapered branch than bolting and trying to spend years making it blend in.

I find that when I cut the branch at the end of the years growth, and allow it to bud and fork, I get additional secondary branches and then choose a new leader and let that grow unrestrained for the next season and then chop back the next year again allowing me to build secondaries all along the way while maintaining girth building evenly. With a bolt to the desired size over a number of years and lopping off four feet of extension, the large branch stub does not seem to ever blend in. The secondary will grow and the primary bolt will grow but they always stay far apart, if that makes sense. There is no taper building thru chops to keep the transition even.

Further, bolting on an elm will give you a stove pipe two feet long with no taper what so ever Exacerbating the issue. Take a look at this cork bark elm and the large first branch that was on the tree when I dug it. It was 3 feet long and cut off at the dig time. I am trying to salvage that branch but am not entirely happy with what I see. I think it is always going to look strange. I am thinking of cutting it off and starting over with a first branch. I will see what one more year does, since last year was a dig year and not really settled in.

Also, since I have a ten month growing season with good hot summers, I get really hard growth. I can probably double growth you get in the North east. Maybe none of this has to do with a shorter growing season. I still have elms pushing shoots right now, Dec. fifth.

OK, nuff about me and branches. This is one hell of a monster elm. Superb taper and really compact and powerful. Will watch as you take it thru the seasons.

I think the solution is to cut that branch shorter Al so that you have more dramatic taper. I do the one season cha cha chop as well and received some criticism from those whose job/career it is to make trees for sale. They said it will take forever to develop my branches and I said I don't mind and I will have better branches in the end because of it that will have great taper and movement not just movement like when you wire out a long branch. Ted Matson agrees with me so I think I'll go the long route instead of the instant canopy route. Maybe compromise and try both ways and see if there's a difference in ten years. I feel the result will be the same but the journey may look more finished with the grow and wire technique versus the clip and grow technique. More time needed to wire the grow and wire technique as well. I'm confused, are you?

 

[nathanbs]

To add to what I just said. Another disadvantage is that chopping back every years growth is that it slows down the healing process on large wounds that you are trying to callous up

 

[tmmason10]

Hi Dave, still hoping for an update if you have one...