Lowering water PH with vinegar

[Mellow Mullet]

The


I have discussed this whole thing with multiple local bonsai professionals (and one not local) and it works for them so I am going to still proceed with it. I dont buy the whole “you need a professionally calibrated equipment to be accurate” I had fish tanks for years that worked great with ph drops.

I am not trying to get scientifically precise with this. Just lower the ph of hard water, the easiest way

OK, MW, you asked for advice, just trying to help.

The reason the dime store ph kit works for fish tanks is the same reason why it works for bonsai soil, ph doesn't really matter that much for either. Sure extremes on both ends are bad, but anywhere around the middle is fine, for both. And that is about the best you are gonna get with that kinda testing. I kept a 110 gallon fish tank for 10 years or so until I moved and did not have room for it anymore. I would measure the pH with strips or the pet store kit and get a 7.0 -7.2, take the same sample to work and used a pH meter and get 8.5. I have been lab technician for 30 years and have a lot of experience measuring pH, a test I perform several times a day. Actually, phosphoric acid would be better to use than vinegar, which is acetic acid.
So, I guess I don't care if you buy it or not, you do you.

 

[MrWunderful]

OK, MW, you asked for advice, just trying to help.

The reason the dime store ph kit works for fish tanks is the same reason why it works for bonsai soil, ph doesn't really matter that much for either. Sure extremes on both ends are bad, but anywhere around the middle is fine, for both. And that is about the best you are gonna get with that kinda testing. I kept a 110 gallon fish tank for 10 years or so until I moved and did not have room for it anymore. I would measure the pH with strips or the pet store kit and get a 7.0 -7.2, take the same sample to work and used a pH meter and get 8.5. I have been lab technician for 30 years and have a lot of experience measuring pH, a test I perform several times a day. Actually, phosphoric acid would be better to use than vinegar, which is acetic acid.
So, I guess I don't care if you buy it or not, you do you.

Im not measuring soil though, just water that comes out of my tap.

And like I said, People that have the same water as me recommended this, and their trees are killer and super healthy.

 

[Gustavo Martins]

I reckon that if you can easily lower the pH of your water with vinegar, which is a weak acid, you should have a relatively soft water. In this case, pH is as variable as the weather and, for the most part, meaningless. Grab a cup of water, measure the pH, then blow to it a few times and take another measure. Let it sit for a day and measure again. You will see what I mean.

 

[Gustavo Martins]

By the way, for the most part, adult fish do not care much about pH. What they care about is the hardeness (how many ions) of the water. I’m not sure about trees but I suspect that the same applies

 

[KillerButts]

By the way, for the most part, adult fish do not care much about pH. What they care about is the hardeness (how many ions) of the water. I’m not sure about trees but I suspect that the same applies

 

[River's Edge]

Vinegar is a poor choice because its affect is temporary! Phosphoric or Muriatic acid work best for PH change of water when requiring large amounts. Do your homework on proper dosage and handling before accepting home remedies from those who have not actually done it!

 

[Forsoothe!]

I really would like one of you chemists to issue a formula that the morons here could use without killing my acid loving trees.

 

[MrWunderful]

Vinegar is a poor choice because its affect is temporary! Phosphoric or Muriatic acid work best for PH change of water when requiring large amounts. Do your homework on proper dosage and handling before accepting home remedies from those who have not actually done it!

What do you mean by temporary? Is the idea to have the acid stay behind?

One of the things I like about vinegar is that it is easy and safe to use, I dont want to have to break out the goggles and gloves just to slap a batch together, because I have to make about 5 gal per week.

 

[MrWunderful]

I really would like one of you chemists to issue a formula that the morons here could use without killing my acid loving trees.

Not sure if Im a moron lol, just looking for input on those who have tried vinegar.

I actually thought it would be more common than its turning out to be.

 

[garywood]

I really would like one of you chemists to issue a formula that the morons here could use without killing my acid loving trees.

For,
this is one of those subjects that a formula just isn't possible. The variables are infinite and the only course is knowing a problem and knowing the possible remedies. Concentrate volume, siphon mixer ratio are only a couple of things that compounds a "formula". A good understanding of the process helps the dialogue on the particulars.

The important thing is what comes out of the end of the hose!! Research, experiment at "your" place and "your" experience, then everyone can be be on a relatively even playing field.

The chances of killing acid loving trees are nil. The other extreme is another thought.

 

[River's Edge]

What do you mean by temporary? Is the idea to have the acid stay behind?

One of the things I like about vinegar is that it is easy and safe to use, I dont want to have to break out the goggles and gloves just to slap a batch together, because I have to make about 5 gal per week.

It is called PH bounce! When you use mild acetic acid ( vinegar ) the Ph drops for a short period of time, then bounces back up ! That is why it is not very useful to manage PH. For five gallons per week just buy bottled RO water and use it to dilute your other water proportionately or collect rainwater in barrels if the climate and season allows.

 

[MrWunderful]

It is called PH bounce! When you use mild acetic acid ( vinegar ) the Ph drops for a short period of time, then bounces back up ! That is why it is not very useful to manage PH. For five gallons per week just buy bottled RO water and use it to dilute your other water proportionately or collect rainwater in barrels if the climate and season allows.

Thank you for your reply. Are you referring to ph in the 5gal container that the siphon is in? Or the PH in the soil?

Because i watered for a few days, then checked the ph coming out of the hose and it was still around 7.

And I am going to begin harvesting rainwater this winter, but It wont be enough to water all my trees every day.

 

[garywood]

Not sure if Im a moron lol, just looking for input on those who have tried vinegar.

I actually thought it would be more common than its turning out to be.

Mr.Wun,
You are not uncommon in this pursuit. Almost all of Ca. has a water "problem". If you choose to use a siphon mixer, use as large a reservoir as possible for concentrate. Make sure you understand the different siphon ratios. All siphons are not equal. Do a little testing. If you are watering a "lot" , there are better acidifiers than vinegar but it's your back yard, research.

 

[MrWunderful]

Mr.Wun,
You are not uncommon in this pursuit. Almost all of Ca. has a water "problem". If you choose to use a siphon mixer, use as large a reservoir as possible for concentrate. Make sure you understand the different siphon ratios. All siphons are not equal. Do a little testing. If you are watering a "lot" , there are better acidifiers than vinegar but it's your back yard, research.

Thank you. I developed my concentrate by testing the water that came out of the watering wand, and for the record the PH drops matched the rough range that my city website said the annual test was.

And I chose vinegar because it was recommended to me by other people who teach bonsai, and it is easiest to use.

I wanted to start off mild before I start throwing phosphoric acid around on trees.

 

[River's Edge]

Thank you for your reply. Are you referring to ph in the 5gal container that the siphon is in? Or the PH in the soil?

Because i watered for a few days, then checked the ph coming out of the hose and it was still around 7.

And I am going to begin harvesting rainwater this winter, but It wont be enough to water all my trees every day.

The water in the container will fluctuate with the use of vinegar as a means of reducing the PH.

 

[garywood]

Thank you. I developed my concentrate by testing the water that came out of the watering wand, and for the record the PH drops matched the rough range that my city website said the annual test was.

And I chose vinegar because it was recommended to me by other people who teach bonsai, and it is easiest to use.

I wanted to start off mild before I start throwing phosphoric acid around on trees.

Mr Fun,
If you feel comfortable with what comes out of the hose then that's all that counts

 

[Forsoothe!]

I was hoping for X parts Vinegar to X parts water to have a mildly acidic water, or something less than neutral. Given water at 7.5ish? My city water is not particularly a high pH system. Rather than greatly reduce the pH of the whole pot-full of soil, just a favorable watering.

 

[Gustavo Martins]

I don’t understand what you mean but I am confident in my reply and stand by it. I’ve Tested and work on it.

 

[chansen]

I bought an imported azalea, and it hated my water. Couldn't figure out why, but eventually got to the pH being too high, but also too much calcium in the water. So I bought an RO unit that is made for hydroponic systems. I have a 125 gallon tank I store the water in. I then manually does muriatic acid after each time I water. I go through about 20-25 gallons each time I water (if I'm watering all the trees), and after lots of testing I know that I have to add back in 1 tsp of muriatic acid to maintain the pH. I test the water regularly to make sure I keep the pH dialed in.

 

[KillerButts]

I bought an imported azalea, and it hated my water. Couldn't figure out why, but eventually got to the pH being too high, but also too much calcium in the water. So I bought an RO unit that is made for hydroponic systems. I have a 125 gallon tank I store the water in. I then manually does muriatic acid after each time I water. I go through about 20-25 gallons each time I water (if I'm watering all the trees), and after lots of testing I know that I have to add back in 1 tsp of muriatic acid to maintain the pH. I test the water regularly to make sure I keep the pH dialed in.

Nice one . Not sure if it's any help but I want to get a drip system piggy backed off a secondary sump collecting my central ac runoff. It's basically RO, I just haven't been able to find a low water level sump that is reliable. I might just get something crap next spring and toss it in the winter.