Looking for ideas to grow out baobabs

[anon user]

Hi all...new member Brian here. I've started a project recently that I'm hoping will be a retirement hobby. I found seeds for all 8 members of the genus adansonia and I'm trying to grow them into bonsai

OK, bonsai may be a loose term here. They'll definitely be kept container bound and I fully intend to style the trees, but I may/may not put them into bonsai pots. That parts so far off I'll defer decisions til then!

For now, since I'm not getting any younger, I'd like to grow them out as quickly as I can. My limitations are that they have to winter indoors and I do not have greenhouse space. Summers here (Kansas City area) are plenty long and hot and I have enough space to summer them outside no problem. These limitations are something I image some of you are used to dealing with.

My other limitation, is that I'm sometimes not too bright I started this project in September...not exactly spring in this neck of the woods. I did think it through...my thought processes after a lot of reading was that germination rates seem low and germination times sometimes very long. I figured I'd kill a number of seeds (I did) before I hit upon a workable recipe. If some sprouted middle of winter, they'd be warm inside and just have a few extra months to grow before next fall when they went dormant.

Whelp, I hit upon a viable and high yield germination process much quicker that I thought I would! I've managed 100% germination in 3-5 days for 6 of the species...and 0% so far for grandidieri and suarezensis...sigh...My fumble fingers killed a couple in potting but I currently have 9 robust seedlings and am still trying to germinate 2 species.

...and now my problem and what I hope you clever people can offer advice on.

I know about the tap root and that the root spread isn't nearly as wide as deep...in fact, baobabs don't seem to have many fine roots at all. My thinking, to save space and optimize plant health, was to plant the seedlings in tall, thin bottles. 1 liter pop bottles to be precise! I cut the very bottoms off and filled them with a good soilless seedling mix and left top off for drainage. I figured the clear sides would let me see if the roots did speak wider than I was thinking and the open bottom would let me watch for the tap root to pop out rather than it getting all coiled up as they tend to in normal pots.

That all worked! But much sooner than expected!! The pictures are of the first baobab I sprouted on September 12. The bottle is a 1 liter soda bottle. Soil surface to bottle top is ~9". You can see the tap root poking out the bottom. The top of the plant is only 3" tall...clearly a lot more under soil growth than top soil growth going on.

This plant in only 6 weeks old...and now I need to start thinking of other options. What do people think?

Should I move them to something deeper...which will be traumatic since I'll need to cut them out of the bottles. I thought about going with 2 liter bottles but that really only gets them a few more inches. I don't know how deep they really want to go Any thoughts on deep but narrow potting containers? Thoughts on how deep is "deep enough"? I'm trying to grow 2 of each species for now so cheapish options preferred

I could leave them be. I was hoping this would get them through the winter when I could move them to bigger arrangements and put them outside. Once they get into a "normal" winter dormancy cycle I have places in the house I can overwinter without problem. Until then I need to keep them close together to keep them under lights. I would expect the part of the root poking out the bottom would dry up and die off. I worry though that I keep the bottles in a tray that catches the seepage and any root poking out the bottom would be resting in standing water if I'm not really careful. I worry then about rot

I also worry a bit that roots that do make it to the bottle edge will be exposed to light. So far, only the perrieri have grown roots like that. They are kept in a bight southern window as well as under blue/red led lights...they are getting pretty high light levels so any roots that make it to the bottle edge will be exposed. Not sure if that's a problem or not.

Any other thoughts/suggestions to save me from myself?? From all that I read about low germination rates and long germination times I was really thinking I would be lucky to get something growing by spring but here I sit less than 2 months into this facing and already facing a new set of challenges.

The last picture, by the way, is a. perrieri on the left and a. gregori on the right. The perrieri is 4 weeks old. The gregori is 6 weeks. They sit right next to each other so the differences you see are more growth habit than environment.

Sigh...too many words...sorry about that!

 

[willw86]

Brian, this is a cool project. Great idea on the soda bottle. I recently ordered some seeds online and A. digitata was one of the species. Did you do anything special to germinate them? (e.g. soaking, removing the shell) I'm impressed that they grew this fast in a month.

I am not experienced, just thinking out loud here. Maybe you could put some water in solo cups and leave them as they are for the time being. That way the tap root could do its job while the seedlings gain vigor and be easily cut back when you repot them. If you're worried about light getting through the solo cups, you could wrap them in aluminum foil.

Are there any smaller roots near the base or is it just the taproot? If there are some shallow roots, I would wonder if cutting the taproot would improve above-ground growth and/or promote surface roots to grow. I would think that the taproot is unnecessary since the tree will receive consistent watering during the growing season. But again, I have no clue what I'm talking about!

I will definitely be following this thread to see what pops up and watch your progress. Best of luck to you.

 

[anon user]

Did you do anything special to germinate them? (e.g. soaking, removing the shell)

Digitiata is the most recent species that sprouted...I've been doing 2 seeds of one species at a time so a) I don't kill a lot at once and b) it's easier to keep rack of each species. I tried a couple things I read in various places that seemed trustworthy. What's worked best for me is this:

1) Put the seed in a solo cup and poor hot water over it. Leave it for 12 hours or so.
2) Remove the seed and scratch it with a rasp just until you start to see white or that you're reasonably sure the outer coat has been broken through. I found it easier to do this after soaking first...but it's still hard! I needed to resort to a rasp file. Sandpaper and finer files clogged too quickly.
3) Soak it in hot water for another 12 hours. If you did break through the outer coat, the husk will likely have swelled. In most cases, the husks on mine swelled leaving a hollow between the husk and seed...I did not expect that but for most species this was true! At that point, the husk is pretty easy to peel off...sometimes the entire husk hasn't soaked enough...the part that hasn't soaked was much harder to peel off. See picture 1.
4) If you can't easily peel off all the husk, don't risk damaging the seed. The more sturdy husk you peel off, the more fragile seed is exposed and the less sturdy material you have to hang onto Instead, soak it for a few more hours to loosen more of the husk. Also, if possible, don't break the inner seed coat. You actually don't have much control over this, and it didn't seem to matter much, but the seed coat can help protect the seed as it germinates.
5) There seems to be 3 layers. The husk...which I always tried to peel off entirely, a dark leathery seed coat, and a more fragile inner seed coat. After doing a few I learned which side the root grew from and, as long as the root part was free, I didn't worry about getting all the leathery outer seed coat off. In picture 2 you can see some of the dark leathery outer coat still on. The lighter color is the thin inner seed coat...inside that is the white cotyledons. The small whitish dot at the left end of the seed is the root bud. I always made sure that was visible. It's usually on the narrower side of the seed which is good to know when peeling the husk. I've damaged cotyledons and the seed still sprouted. When I've damaged the root bud the seed has died
6) Once I had the root bud free I moved the seed into a small clear tupperwear container. I sandwhiched the seed in a napkin and sprayed the napkin until it was wet but without puddles. The container got closed and put under the grow lights. The seed should continue to swell. Most of the time I'd have a noticable root growth within 24 hours...almost always before 48. If you look at the photo dates, the husk was peeled on the 25 and in the 3rd picture you can see how long the root was on the 28th.
7) Once there was noticeable root growth I moved the seed into the bottles which were filled with a soilless seed starter mix. I planted the seeds root down with the tip of the seed at the surface and visible. See photo 4. Then I kept the soil misted and held my breath for 2-3 days until the cotyldon started to rise out of the soil.

Simple, right? To be honest, this process isn't necessary...the seeds grow in nature without all this fuss. It's hard for me to match natural conditions...I'm not going to eat the seeds so my stomach acids can soften the husk, for instance This processes has proven efficient. Since switching to it, I've had 100% germination on everything but grandidieri and suarezensis which are both much larger seeds. I suspect temperature plays into it a lot more on those two as well. My house is generally 70-75F. During my tries at the two failures we had a cold snap and the house got down to 65 most of the day. I suspect that slowed growth enough that rot caught up to them...we'll see. I just started another attempt on a single suarezensis seed today. I'm down to 4 seeds after this and my source for that species is out of stock

Sorry for all the words but hopefully the detail helps someone someday...

 

[anon user]

I am not experienced, just thinking out loud here. Maybe you could put some water in solo cups and leave them as they are for the time being. That way the tap root could do its job while the seedlings gain vigor and be easily cut back when you repot them. If you're worried about light getting through the solo cups, you could wrap them in aluminum foil.

Are there any smaller roots near the base or is it just the taproot? If there are some shallow roots, I would wonder if cutting the taproot would improve above-ground growth and/or promote surface roots to grow. I would think that the taproot is unnecessary since the tree will receive consistent watering during the growing season. But again, I have no clue what I'm talking about!

I've got a jade plant that my then girlfriend, now wife of 26 years got me. It's a succulent like baobabs. Allowing it's roots to sit in water would kill it. Actually, I suspect it would be a race. The taproot in the water I suspect would quickly rot. Then the race would be if the rot spread up the root before the plant could seal it off.

The jade plant is interesting. There are "nodes" along the stem. The plant will tend to snap at the nodes. The nodes are where the buds are. If you cut the step between the nodes it will die back to at least the next node...often all the way back to the next bud. There's nothing like heartwood in succulents...they are live live all the way through. I don't know how much of a model a jade plant is for a baobab but everything I've read suggest root rot is a serious threat!

The perrieri seems to have lots of thin roots compared to the other...so far at least I can see a number of them running down the inside of the bottle whereas I don't see anything similar not he others yet. In the attached picture they are the vertical while lines that are hard to see in the glare. They seem to be present the entire length of the tap root so far.

I agree, the taproot is not necessary since I promise to water provide water when needed The plant doesn't know that though. I'm actually more worried about the developing caudex. Baobabs want to store water and my understanding is a lot of early water storage is underground. I'm working on the theory that the easiest way to get large healthy plants is to promote large healthy root systems I might be overdoing it (I tend to overdo most things) because eventually the underground bulb will need to be cut down if I do want to move to bonsai pots. If the build is deep that could end up taking many years since it's probably not a good idea to hack a majority of the root system off all at once...but, yeah, just feeling my way forward hoping I'm going a tolerable direction.

 

[willw86]

Thanks for the wealth of information! You probably prevented me from killing my future seedlings. Really interesting stuff about the biology of baobabs. I will have to do some more reading. My house stays a little cooler (maybe 65 F) during the winter months, but I ordered a heat mat for these and a few other projects. I will follow your lead and not germinate all my seeds at once. I hope someone with a legitimate answer for you appears, lol.

It's hard for me to match natural conditions...I'm not going to eat the seeds so my stomach acids can soften the husk, for instance

Come on, why not try just one??? That's about as organic as it gets.

 

[hemmy]

I worry though that I keep the bottles in a tray that catches the seepage and any root poking out the bottom would be resting in standing water if I'm not really careful. I worry then about rot

Here’s another thread and my post has a link to a 3rd baobab thread.

https://www.bonsainut.com/threads/what-about-baobab.28101/#post-470184

Most online info strongly cautions against wartering while dormant and even suggests that some bare root and leave inside over winter to avoid rot. You started these in a seedling mix which I assume is high in organics. You’ll want to watch over watering if they are indoors, even if they are in leaf. I would dump the cup out after watering to avoid standing water.

That said, I started my first seed 8 1/2yrs ago in spring (then about 1hr down the road from you!). It moved to SoCal in the summer and came inside when temps dropped and rains came. It lost it leaves about dec(?) and I didn’t water after that. I neglected it and failed to see that the small stem had shriveled a couple months later. My point being that I think the seedlings may need some minimum amount of water since their bulbous roots haven’t developed yet. I grew mine in a rootmaker air pruning pot and it still grew several bulbs in the one gallon pot. I have also read that thickening can be done by placing them inside a second container during active growing to allow the roots to escape. But I just pot mine up to larger containers and let the roots to escape to the ground.

 

[hemmy]

Another odd thing is that mine seems to always be off in relation to the optimal growing season. This year it leafed out in early July, which means it will hold its leaves as the temps drop below 50F and then it will start to sulk with the cold overnight lows. The leaves tend to fall around Feb. When the leaves are off it stays outside (low 40s) and goes under an overhang to stay dry.

 

[hemmy]

Another note, my seedling retained healthy leaves for about 8 months it’s first year and then for 4 months of full leaf for every year after. It started leafing out in Sept-Oct, but the last 2 years it moved earlier to Jul-Aug.m Possibly due to this sliding schedule or the grafting, its actually gone dormant and leafed out 9 times in 8 years. This pic was July 2018.

 

[anon user]

Come on, why not try just one??? That's about as organic as it gets.

lol...I'm just guessing about the stomach acid thing! I don't actually know how they germinate in the wild.

 

[anon user]

Most online info strongly cautions against wartering while dormant and even suggests that some bare root and leave inside over winter to avoid rot. You started these in a seedling mix which I assume is high in organics. You’ll want to watch over watering if they are indoors, even if they are in leaf. I would dump the cup out after watering to avoid standing water.

I have a Jade plant that's several decades old...it grows large, gets out of hand, then I chop it back to let it grow for another few years. I've seen them collapse from overwatering. I've learned the art of "controlled neglect" with mine. During growing season, I water when the soil is dry. The rest of the year, I squeeze a leaf or two. If they have some turgor...I leave it alone. If they're soft or floppy...time for some water

Seems like I'll have to be more considerate in how I treat baobabs...I'm not sure they have an easy tell like some other succulents do

 

[anon user]

...and hemmy, I like your tree It looks like you topped it since the thread you referenced? Was that this growing season?

 

[Lorax7]

Have you tried planting some in shallow pots from the very beginning? I’m wondering if perhaps a solution to the tap root problem could be simply to constrain the vertical root growth with a physical barrier (the pot). Basically, if growing a deep tap root is not an available option, will the tree automatically adapt to its depth-limited environment by growing roots laterally?

 

[hemmy]

...and hemmy, I like your tree It looks like you topped it since the thread you referenced? Was that this growing season?

I cut it back for the first time end of Sept 2017. I only cut back on previous year’s growth. I’m going to cut back on this year’s green growth (semi-hardened) to see what happens. We are still getting some warm temps and I think +50degF nights will extend for another month. But I probably should have done it a month ago.

 

[hemmy]

Have you tried planting some in shallow pots from the very beginning? I’m wondering if perhaps a solution to the tap root problem could be simply to constrain the vertical root growth with a physical barrier (the pot). Basically, if growing a deep tap root is not an available option, will the tree automatically adapt to its depth-limited environment by growing roots laterally?

It’s not so much that the tap root is deep, as it is bulbous, which is their adaptation for water storage. I would think the bulbs would just develop laterally. But they can be grown in larger containers and root chopped as these links show.


https://docplayer.net/53955732-Kremetart-baobab-as-bonsai.html

http://lennardsbonsaibeginnings.blogspot.com/2010/04/adansonia-digitata-baobab.html

 

[anon user]

Have you tried planting some in shallow pots from the very beginning? I’m wondering if perhaps a solution to the tap root problem could be simply to constrain the vertical root growth with a physical barrier (the pot). Basically, if growing a deep tap root is not an available option, will the tree automatically adapt to its depth-limited environment by growing roots laterally?

My experience with my saguaro...which also has a taproot along with a shallow root system...is that the roots hit the bottom then curl around the pot

It would have been more stable to poke holes in the bottom of the bottles and let them stand upright. I inverted them because then there's nothing but smooth sides and no places for roots to get trapped and into up.

Tall rather than wide also helps my growing space until they get large enough to survive dormancy. They have space to winter outside, but I don't have a lot of indoor under light space. Once they go dormant they can go in the cooler basement during the winters and get full outdoor sun for summer...again, poor planning on my part! I expected a lot more failures and with planing one or two seeds at a time I thought it would be much longer before I had plants!

 

[anon user]

I cut it back for the first time end of Sept 2017. I only cut back on previous year’s growth. I’m going to cut back on this year’s green growth (semi-hardened) to see what happens. We are still getting some warm temps and I think +50degF nights will extend for another month. But I probably should have done it a month ago.

How tall does it get on one year's growth?

My basement has 10' ceilings. I'm not planning on letting them get that tall...I'm not even sure how tall they'll get in a container...but that's my limit

My ultimate hope is to grow them in relation to one another: grandidieri = 2x taller than gregori, etc...and grow them in their most typical style.

 

[hemmy]

How tall does it get on one year's growth?

You should be good with 10 feet! Mine has never been vigorous and only 12” this year. This conversation has been good, as it spurred me to cut it back last night. My first chop last year was when I gave up trying for a thicker tree. It will thicken in the pot over the next 40 years . . .

 

[jason biggs]

Hemmy your tree looks awesome for late season growth...
but you are smoking weed if you think a baobab will grow 10 feet in a pot in a year

 

[hemmy]

10 feet

Lol. 10ft is bjtieman’s ceiling which should be able to contain a few years growth!

The other baobab I bought last year looks like puts on ~6” of growth per flush. I think the key to stronger growth is double potting it so the roots can run.

Also the leaves on mine should look good, it’s just the first years leaves that were leafed out in August! Hopefully with this cutback I’ll get some back budding and a little growth before the night temps drop and it drops its leaves.

 

[anon user]

Slightly off topic, but my wife and I were in St Louis so we stopped at the botanical gardens for an afternoon stroll. Found this guy in the Climatron. I found that interesting since they say the Climatron is kept year round at ~85F during the day dropping to ~64F at night. There were lots of rainforest and swamp plants in there as well...definitely not what I think of when I think Baobab! I doubt this guy gets a dormant period!

I also found it interesting that the tree looked to be 50'+ tall but was only about a foot in diameter. The soil around it and the path were wet and the air was humid enough it was heavy to breath. The trunk was even damp to the touch...though the leaves up in the canopy looked dry...probably a lot warmer up there in the sun. Made me wonder how the roots were contained and if root moisture was managed from below somehow.

There is a temperate greenhouse just off the side of the Climatron that seemed more like the type of climate I would expect for a Baobab but the ceiling was much shorter in there also.