Sno
Mame
Mike .Give it a rest mate .
Kiwi’s darkest day
- Thread starter KiwiPlantGuy
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leatherback
The Treedeemer
Sad to see these events now also reaching new zealand, and my own birth-country.
Equally sad to see this thread turn into a discussion on migration. On the one hand it is funny to see people from countries that exist for 99.5% of imigration-decendents calling for a ban on immigration. On the other hand, I am offended. I feel personally offended, as I am a migrant, and left the country of my nationality 14 years ago in search of work. My wife is a migrant who left her country of birth at age 12. Half of my friends do not live where they were born.
Equally sad to see this thread turn into a discussion on migration. On the one hand it is funny to see people from countries that exist for 99.5% of imigration-decendents calling for a ban on immigration. On the other hand, I am offended. I feel personally offended, as I am a migrant, and left the country of my nationality 14 years ago in search of work. My wife is a migrant who left her country of birth at age 12. Half of my friends do not live where they were born.
Ayata
Seedling
Quite some enlightenment going on on this thread.
It was such a sad day, but i must say New Zealand handled this sad event with incredible dignity both on a political and a public level. It is easy to feel like the `other` when you are living in a foreign country, for whatever reason you are there for. And it is easy to think when something bad or just out of ordinary happens, it's because you are different, and that maybe you are targeted for that. Seeing the support to victims and the community that suffered this attack directly, I think this is the best that anyone in this situation can hope for. Kiwi's set an amazing example. I don't know much about your PM and her policies etc. but it's fair to say she was perfect during this crisis. Brought the country together.
It has been my observation so far in my life and from people around me that as we get older, we get less tolerant. Less tolerant of the way we are treated, less tolerant of differences and less tolerant of people of course. Now bonsai being what it is, we have lots of intolerant people around here. And from what i see, there is not much tolerance for considering many different angles and reasons for complicated issues too. Complicated issues like economy where a countries owe so much to different banks and institutions, and has some of those debts relieved in the scale of 100 billions, but some would have us believe that all this is because these countries just handed out money to the wrong people, who just happens to be ethnically and religiously different then most of its citizens. Sure.
Let me fit in with;
>link to a blog about the truth of global economy and the elite. It is legit because it has link to other blogs with lots words as a source that you are supposed to get lost in and never come back to original conversation.
>youtube video where you can tell the host spends all his time thinking about this stuff and provides you perfectly adjusted one line arguments to complex issues. Also quick cut-aways of people from opposite bias being asked punch line questions
It was such a sad day, but i must say New Zealand handled this sad event with incredible dignity both on a political and a public level. It is easy to feel like the `other` when you are living in a foreign country, for whatever reason you are there for. And it is easy to think when something bad or just out of ordinary happens, it's because you are different, and that maybe you are targeted for that. Seeing the support to victims and the community that suffered this attack directly, I think this is the best that anyone in this situation can hope for. Kiwi's set an amazing example. I don't know much about your PM and her policies etc. but it's fair to say she was perfect during this crisis. Brought the country together.
It has been my observation so far in my life and from people around me that as we get older, we get less tolerant. Less tolerant of the way we are treated, less tolerant of differences and less tolerant of people of course. Now bonsai being what it is, we have lots of intolerant people around here. And from what i see, there is not much tolerance for considering many different angles and reasons for complicated issues too. Complicated issues like economy where a countries owe so much to different banks and institutions, and has some of those debts relieved in the scale of 100 billions, but some would have us believe that all this is because these countries just handed out money to the wrong people, who just happens to be ethnically and religiously different then most of its citizens. Sure.
Let me fit in with;
>link to a blog about the truth of global economy and the elite. It is legit because it has link to other blogs with lots words as a source that you are supposed to get lost in and never come back to original conversation.
>youtube video where you can tell the host spends all his time thinking about this stuff and provides you perfectly adjusted one line arguments to complex issues. Also quick cut-aways of people from opposite bias being asked punch line questions
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Forsoothe!
Imperial Masterpiece
If anyone thinks that push will not come to shove on the Muslim verses everyone else war, I've got big news for them.
Bonsai Nut
Nuttier than your average Nut
There is a HUGE difference between legal immigration, and ILLEGAL immigration. You my friend are a legal immigrant. Welcome! You followed the rules, you followed the laws, you are a productive member of society, etc.
California is the most ethnically diverse state in the country. We love immigrants. What many of us DON'T love is the 10% of the people living in our state illegally. Immigrate here legally from Mexico? Welcome! Travel here illegally to soak up free social services? No thank you. I use Mexico as an example because statistically they represent the source of over 50% of all illegal aliens - but my opinion applies equally regardless of where you come from. Do you want to hear from people most against illegal immigration in this state? Talk to a LEGAL immigrant from Mexico. They can't stand it!
People who don't live here don't understand the problem... and it IS a problem. It isn't about race or ethnicity - it's about following the law, and about our country having the ability to say who is or isn't allowed legal residency. People outside of our country don't get to decide - gee it looks nice in San Francisco I think I will just move there. I can't just move to Switzerland because I like to ski and think the mountains are pretty.
And what happens is that if immigration laws are NOT enforced, it empowers extremist views in the country. People who don't like ANY immigration - and who feel betrayed because they see government failing to enforce even the most basic laws. They start to feel like they need to take law into their own hands - to "protect" themselves from a break-down in the social contract. If government were doing its job at even the most basic level, these people would be ostracized as nut-cases. But instead they find an audience in people who are frustrated by the situation - and feel that government is unwilling to address the issue.
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Forsoothe!
Imperial Masterpiece
If you think being anti-illegal immigration is racist, watch the names of Boarder Patrol agents on TV interviews. The people that live on the boarder are mostly Mexican and Indian descendants. Count the Spanish and Indian surnames verses European surnames and you'll have a better feel for who is against being overrun with illegals. This is especially true in all of California which has many descendants of the Spanish/Portuguese/Mexican population that was there before 1846. Look in the phone book. It's the screwy immigrants from the eastern states that have screwed-up California. Thank God for the rest of the country, our screwed up misfits have gone to California! Mostly to Lost Angeles and Gomorrah.
bonsaichile
Omono
I have been inspired to see the true leadership of your PM, and the love and solidarity displayed by all of the people in NZ. We were in the car when we heard how NZ, in the wake of this tragedy, had done the right thing and ban semi-automTic weapons. My 14-year-old was shocked to hear how quickly and how uncontroversial the measure was. Sadly (sadly for us, who live hostages of a loud interest group) I had to explain to her that that is how reasonable, sensible countries react: By taking meaningful action. This tragedy cannot be prevented, but the next one can. The love and empathy displayed by your political leaders have shown us that there is a right and a wrong way to respond to these cowardly acts. And that is a measure of comfort in the dark times we live in.
bonsaichile
Omono
Such a racist rant! When did this place become 4chan?
No culture is static, they are always changing. And they change both by internal pressures and by contact with other cultures. People have always moved around, for a host of reasons (war, demographic pressures, commerce, even wanderlust). In fact, laws restricting immigration did not come into existance in the West until the 19th century. So to postulate some "pure" culture being replaced...pffff
AlainK
Imperial Masterpiece
Good evening,
Alexandra, societies must evolve. Take any "sacred book" for granred, and we'll all be back to the middle ages, no, to prehistory, when religion was useful for people not to throw a brother in a well to die because of jealousy (I'll let you quote the passage in the genesis since you seem to value "religion" so much, you must know what you're talking about).
There was no social system at that time, no administration, no police, no "nation", only nomadic herdsmen in the middle-east desertic places where life was so hard that murdering a kinsman, or even a brother was not that much of an affair.
Thus, men invented God, a superhero that could freeze you to stone if ever you did something "wrong". Which was just plain good sense.
Like when one tell their kids "don't misbehave, or father Christmas won't bring you anything". In some cultures, there's even a punisher, here he's called "Père fouettard" (whipping father).
It probably helped not to rip out the eye of that bastard that wanted to bully me in primary school, but I'm not a 6-year-old any more, I'm an adult, and I don't believe any longer in that crap : men and women are endowed with a critical mind.
I'll never live in a country where religion rules.
Galileo, Darwin, and many others would have burned on pyres on behalf of such a medieval "constitution" .
Exacly what "religious people" are doing in Myanmar, Syria, New Zealand, France, and the US of A.
The "great replacement" theory that was the core ideological argument for that criminal to slaughter innocent people.
Your simplistic, paranoid vision of society is fuelling hatred and is actually an alibi for other weirdos to do the same.
Apalling.
It's true that anyone can make a pipe-bomb, but there are more victims from "accidental shootings" in the US than homicides - I think.
You mean white people ? WASPs ?
Since I'm a citizen of the world that happens to live in Europe this is a local version (sung in English by a Belgian) of a song I first heard sung by Buffy Sainte-Marie (another person whose ancestors were deprived from their true name by priests) in my late teens :
Alexandra, societies must evolve. Take any "sacred book" for granred, and we'll all be back to the middle ages, no, to prehistory, when religion was useful for people not to throw a brother in a well to die because of jealousy (I'll let you quote the passage in the genesis since you seem to value "religion" so much, you must know what you're talking about).
There was no social system at that time, no administration, no police, no "nation", only nomadic herdsmen in the middle-east desertic places where life was so hard that murdering a kinsman, or even a brother was not that much of an affair.
Thus, men invented God, a superhero that could freeze you to stone if ever you did something "wrong". Which was just plain good sense.
Like when one tell their kids "don't misbehave, or father Christmas won't bring you anything". In some cultures, there's even a punisher, here he's called "Père fouettard" (whipping father).
It probably helped not to rip out the eye of that bastard that wanted to bully me in primary school, but I'm not a 6-year-old any more, I'm an adult, and I don't believe any longer in that crap : men and women are endowed with a critical mind.
I'll never live in a country where religion rules.
Galileo, Darwin, and many others would have burned on pyres on behalf of such a medieval "constitution" .
Exacly what "religious people" are doing in Myanmar, Syria, New Zealand, France, and the US of A.
The "great replacement" theory that was the core ideological argument for that criminal to slaughter innocent people.
Your simplistic, paranoid vision of society is fuelling hatred and is actually an alibi for other weirdos to do the same.
Apalling.
It's true that anyone can make a pipe-bomb, but there are more victims from "accidental shootings" in the US than homicides - I think.
You mean white people ? WASPs ?
Since I'm a citizen of the world that happens to live in Europe this is a local version (sung in English by a Belgian) of a song I first heard sung by Buffy Sainte-Marie (another person whose ancestors were deprived from their true name by priests) in my late teens :
bonsaichile
Omono
Pl
Please, dont call them "illegal" immigrants. It is not only unsightly; it is just plain wrong. In this country, undocumented immigration is not a crime, it is a misdemeanor, just like a speeding ticket. I am sure you have driven above the speed limit at times. And that does not make you an "illegal driver" now, does it?
AlainK
Imperial Masterpiece
Cześć
I can understand what you mean by "religiously different" : when I went to see some of my remote family in Poland, I was struck by their bogotry and racism - they were very nice people though, but so anti-semitic and manipulated from their early age by Catholicism - but mind you, there are of course no pedophile priests in Poland. Er...
But "ethnically different" ? What do you mean ?
What is "ethnic purity" ? I'm genetically 100% "gural", though I am 100% French, thank history. Both my parents are from Zakopane, I have blue eyes and blond hair. What about the "Schlonzoks" (don't know how to write that in Polish, you know, the people who say "kartofle" instead of "zimniaki"), or the Kashubians ?
Are they "ethnically the same" ?
" ethnically and religiously different "
Thanks to the responses from people like you, it will be very easy to spot a real ethnic Pole from a Ukranian, a Spaniard, or a French person
In the meantime, I can tell a friend from a fascist. When I meet him/her in real life, of course.
I can understand what you mean by "religiously different" : when I went to see some of my remote family in Poland, I was struck by their bogotry and racism - they were very nice people though, but so anti-semitic and manipulated from their early age by Catholicism - but mind you, there are of course no pedophile priests in Poland. Er...
But "ethnically different" ? What do you mean ?
What is "ethnic purity" ? I'm genetically 100% "gural", though I am 100% French, thank history. Both my parents are from Zakopane, I have blue eyes and blond hair. What about the "Schlonzoks" (don't know how to write that in Polish, you know, the people who say "kartofle" instead of "zimniaki"), or the Kashubians ?
Are they "ethnically the same" ?
" ethnically and religiously different "
Thanks to the responses from people like you, it will be very easy to spot a real ethnic Pole from a Ukranian, a Spaniard, or a French person
In the meantime, I can tell a friend from a fascist. When I meet him/her in real life, of course.
AlainK
Imperial Masterpiece
Pun not intended
One of the few things I remember : " Kto rano wstaje, temu pan bog daje"
Forsoothe!
Imperial Masterpiece
When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Chicago has the toughest gun laws in the country. Are you safer in Chicago than Dallas, or any other city with more liberal laws? If not, why not.
bonsaichile
Omono
Not true. I come from a country with strict gun laws, most people dont have guns and there is nothing remotely resembling a "gun culture" (whatever that may mean). I have lived in countries with strict gun laws. The NRA lie that without guns there is nothing but lawlessness is purely a terrorist tactic.
Forsoothe!
Imperial Masterpiece
Not true, not even close. Accidental gun deaths: 600
What's the upper limit of unbridled immigration? Who decides how much of my country you give away?
bonsaichile
Omono
Sorry, dude. It is not "your country." It is a republic, from the Latin Res publica, lit. "The thing that belongs to the people." No single ownership here due to the accidental fact that you just happened to be born here.
CasAH
Chumono
I live in Chicago. We do not have the strictest gun laws in the country thanks to cowards like you that pee their pants the second they see their shadows. Since you whiny little bitches went to court and took down the gun laws the gang bangers have not been buying guns in Illinois. All of the illegal guns seized from gang bangers cone from the manly manly states of Indiania, Kentucky and Mississippi.
Our gun laws keep guns out of the hands of criminals. You guys are just tools of the Russian controlled NRA.
AlainK
Imperial Masterpiece
Here, on the other side of the pond, guns are outlawed on most of the continent, except in Switzerland.
Have a look on data on people killed by firearms on either side.
The exception of Switzerland, where a lot of people have a military gun at home is interesting : it's a matter of culture. It must be hard for people who were raised in a culture of violence, a country that was founded on eliminating anyone different or in the way, Native americans, Hispanics, etc. to try to explain that that "gun culture" is just insane.
But, in "God" they trust...
Actually, isn't the motto of the USA "E Pluribus Unum" ?
Forsoothe!
Imperial Masterpiece
You mean I have no more interest in it than you would allow? Yes, a Republic, with laws. You don't like a law? You know how to change it, and that's not by fiat.
bonsaichile
Omono
Wow! The kid knows (some) Latin! ?
Nobody is talking about changing the laws by "fiat," unless you mean Trump and his campaign to criminalize asylum seekers (which, according to the law you refer to, are not migrants, but a different category protected by international treaties signed and ratified by the US government...)
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