Just bought a couple of bonsai and need loads of help

[Steve67]

Hi people.
I've bought a Chinese Elm and a Cotoneaster for an alcove in my living room. I've bought a load of stuff for them including 3 different led light 3 heat mats humidifiers, dehumidifiers, food and other stuff. I've been looking up and down the Internet for the correct lighting, heat levels, R,H and the amount of time under the led lights. What I've been able to find is not much and what these is, is all different opinions. Can anyone please help me with any of this as I'm struggling with what to actually do? I've grown other stuff in the past and thought I could put what I learned from that into growing Bonsai but nothing seems to be the same.
Any help would be great.

 

[Wulfskaar]

Welcome!

You're going to get a lot of heat for trying to grow non-tropical trees indoors. Generally speaking, they will die a slow death. I think trying to keep them indoors is going to be a constant battle as opposed to keeping them outside, where they have evolved to live and thrive.

 

[JudyB]

Any chance you could trade those in for a ficus? Ficus are the easiest trees for bonsai indoors. Chinese elm may work ok, esp if you only try to keep inside during the winter, and have it outside in the summer. But that is also iffy, as only some Chinese elm don't need a dormant period. Brazilian raintree also can handle inside winters, but also want outside in summer. Sub tropicals and tropicals are different as they don't need to have a dormant (cold) period in winter. I don't grow inside, so I can't help you with what you're trying to do, maybe someone can try to help. I do know that trying to grow inside can lead to many many pest and disease issues. Good luck and welcome to the forum!

 

[Jrmcmich]

As mentioned you will hear this but keeping outdoors is much easier. As JudyB mentioned tropical can be kept inside but I know mine kept inside in winter look sad and can’t wait to get them back outside where they seem to thrive. Do what you want and all the power to try but just know could be challenging especially if they need any dormancy season.

 

[Steve67]

Qdd

Hi people.
I've bought a Chinese Elm and a Cotoneaster for an alcove in my living room. I've bought a load of stuff for them including 3 different led light 3 heat mats humidifiers, dehumidifiers, food and other stuff. I've been looking up and down the Internet for the correct lighting, heat levels, R,H and the amount of time under the led lights. What I've been able to find is not much and what these is, is all different opinions. Can anyone please help me with any of this as I'm struggling with what to actually do? I've grown other stuff in the past and thought I could put what I learned from that into growing Bonsai but nothing seems to be the same.
Any help would be great.

 

[Steve67]

Thanks guys that a lot to think about. The first tree was a present but not a very nice tree its a boring looking but got me interested so decided to shell out and get others . It's also a Chinese Elm so that's two plus the Cotoneaster I've now got. I defo should have done more homework on these plants and not took for granted they will be ok. I have now got some decent led lighting to try to keep them good but never took into consideration the dormant period. As I've said about looking through the Internet and all the different options I've had them under one of the smaller lights but for 15 hours. If there meant to be in a dormant period I'm assuming that's too much so can anyone help there. I'll defo be doing a lot more homework on this bit hope u good people will keep me straight, is there any more advice on a couple of different evergreens that I can grow indoors under led? I can try to simulate the conditions as best as possible.

 

[Shibui]

Chinese elm can survive without a definite dormant period. They grow quite well in tropical areas (outdoors) and do not drop leaves unless they get under around 10C temps.
Not sure about Cotoneaster and dormant period.

You can give both a go indoors but, unless you can find the few people who have been successful you may have to suck it and see.

 

[Steve67]

Thanks Shibui.
The Elm I got is doing good now and growing. Its under a small led grow light I just got for the first Elm I got as a gift. Cause I got another 2 myself I've got a couple of new leds that are more powerful, one is just a bigger version of the first one but the other is an actual hanging grow light for the flowering stage. I already know a bit about spectrums as I've grown stuff indoors before but under HID and HPS. Silly me though growing Bonsai would have been a lot like that but not the case so found myself stuck. If u know anyone or anyone reading this knows anything about growing flowering Cotoneaster's indoors under LED could they please get in touch with any help.
Thanks.

 

[Steve67]

Also guys, the Cotoneaster is in a soil that the seller said is outside growing soil. I've never saw anything like this, it looks as if it's just all wee tiny stones and some soil with a slow release fertiliser through it. The other 2 are in coco and I'd prefer if the Cotoneaster is in coco as well. I've grown in coco before so know a bit about it so can I just take it out this soil and put it in coco? I've been reading a lot about it for Bonsai's but can't find if that's ok?
Any and all help would be greatly appreciated guy's. Thanks.

 

[RoadManDenDron]

Actually, most of us prefer to grow in particle media like the little stones

Actually usually with no organics or actual soil at all!

It's another of those things where there is so much to learn! Hopefully this is another step on you getting deeper into the hobby and building your knowledge

Think of it like hydroponics, a really common cause of death of bonsai is overwatering,

With the particle soil that becomes almost impossible,

Organic soil can also hold too much fertiliser salts and burn trees but again this is much harder to do in particle based soil like the rocks

And lastly air exchange happens much more freely with particle based soil than coco or compost

You're in a good position because you have both, keep them and see which you prefer

But whatever you do, do not treat them the same, water only when it needs it and not just water all of them at the same time

 

[SeanS]

I couldn’t see if it was mentioned but are you actually able to put them outside? Do you have an outside area where you live? If you do then put them outside where plants belong and don’t attempt the inside thing, return all your lighting/humidifying/heating apparatus and use the money elsewhere.

 

[yashu]

These are outdoor trees and honestly the lights you used for “other stuff” will be much better for the plants. Many folks who grow indoors on here use LEDs but they are using systems closer to commercial grow lights like Spider Farmer or others. The big box store LEDs are not going to cut it if you want the trees to actually thrive.

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Even for dormancy I use an AgroBrite 2’ 4 tube T5 system which I don’t think would be adequate for the growth season.

 

[rockm]

Your trees will not survive indoors. Regardless of the elms dormancy requirement (and it probably does require dormancy IMO) the light inside (even with regular store bought plant grow lights) is extremely low. Humidity inside inside is akin to desert level aridity. Add to that the lack of air circulation and hi high promotes mites and other problems and you’re setting the plants up to fail

Get the outside now. Bring them I if there is a freeze/frost forecast we all do that with trees in springtime if we live in temperate zones with deciduous trees. Leave the trees outside in full sun Give them a location where they get afternoon shade.

Learn how to water (“real” bonsai soil is built to drain quickly and horrifies gardeners used to garden potting soil. Bonsai soil is chunky and porous and sharp sided. That promotes air circulation through the root mass. Health roots need gas exchange. Garden potting soil is far too dense and stays far too soggy for bonsai use.

 

[JudyB]

Dormancy has to do with the plant acquiring the number of necessary hours in conditions under 40degrees F. If the trees dont get those met, then they will slowly decline and die over a couple seasons. The elms may be able to last without this, I’ve heard of that before, but they usually don’t thrive as well.

 

[NMbonsai]

All of the above is great advice, especially what Rockm spelled out clearly and precisely. I also have Chinese Elms. I overwinter them in a plant room with lots of windows, but with no supplemental lights. A heater is controlled by a thermostat set at 60°F. , mostly for other tropicals that they share the room with. They go outside as soon as days are sunny and above 50°F but come in at night, until the night time lows are reliably above 50°F. They then stay outside all summer in a spot sheltered from wind and receiving morning sun but shaded during the afternoon.
The cotineasters are another story. As far as I can tell, those species are all temperate outdoor plants and all need the winter dormancy period as well. I don't know of any that are semitropicals and could be kept indoors exclusively.