Juniper procumbens “nana”

[TyroTinker]

This thread will be full of firsts. I welcome feedback and hope to learn from this little nana.

This juniper is from my first bonsai class. It was lead by a local who has only taught 2 other classes so far. It was a fun and I enjoyed getting out with others and cutting up some trees.

Class started with picking a pot and tree. Then we sat down at a table with our supplied tools already set out for us.



I picked up the tree with a larger trunk than most of the others and some movement in the trunk. I think all of the trees had that one long branch that made me think of a cascade style.
I’m not a big fan of cascading bonsai, unless it is a high level one. Which I think for my first trained tree might be out of my league. I grabbed a simple unglazed brown pot to go with it.





First thing we did is cut off all of the downward facing growth off of the branches and took out all the dead growth. At this point I completely forgot to take pictures until I was done cutting some branches and cleaning off my roots... oops

Here is the bottom of my pot right before I added a small amount of soil.


I was trying not to remove any roots but there was one thick one going straight down that I did take off. It didn’t have many fine roots on it. I thought it was strange that we were bare rooting a juniper in winter so I left all I could besides that. The root mass didn’t go all the way around the trunk so when I potted up the tree (with wire) I tried to keep the unrooted side with as much room to grow that I could. I’m not sure if that was the right choice or if I should have just put the open area closer to the edge of the pot and encouraged the roots that already existed.

Then I just spent a while trying to figure out what I wanted as a front and what angle to plant at. That natural cascade branch was really giving me some trouble. Wasn’t sure what to do with it.


I decided to keep that branch, but in the back as a hidden sacrifice branch. Or if I change my mind I still have it.
It does make a bar branch with a branch that I think is important to the front I did go with. I figure I have to make up my mind about my front soon, before the bar branch causes me any issues.

 

[TyroTinker]

After the front was decided and wired in the pot. Which by the way I missed explanation of the proper way to wire around the tree to secure it in the pot... I just took 1 piece of wire and came up both holes in my pot and did two loops with each wire around the base of the tree. It didn’t seem quite right but it was the best I came up with in the moment. How does everyone else wire in the


No pictures of the wiring process but damn that is tough to do. I knew it took practice, but kudos to those who make it look so good. I had a lot of issues when I switched to a smaller gauge in the middle of a branch how to anchor the new branch. I also had an issue on deciding where to start the wire when I wanted to wire a specific branch that I passed when I did the big branch first.

But here it is my wired tree in all its glo

I used the stub of a branch I cut off as an anchor for a few of my wires. You can also see one of my smaller branches that I think I might lose. I damaged it when I was trying to shape it.

 

[TyroTinker]

I had some black rubber matts in my car that I got from work. So when I was leaving class I took some additional shots with the best background I could come up with.

This first two shots are the front that I went with. Hopefully you don’t notice that long sacrifice branch that doubles as a temporary backup choice for a front.

I wired the small little branch on top up to help it become the new leader. The other, larger branch on top splits into two branches and try really hard to cover up my first branch so I made sure to keep those from shading it out.

This one is mostly the same but shows the lines of the trunk better. Might be the new front whenever I move this little guy around again.


If I was going to do a cascade I think I would use one of these next two profiles below as a starting point

I tried to take a couple shots from above to show that I tried to spread the foliage away from each other to let some light in to the main trunk line.
The soil makes it hard to see any details though


All in all I had a great time with my first class, my first time styling a tree. First time wiring and my first time meeting a Bnut member @Mikelb

 

[0soyoung]

In the future, you should do your styling first, then repot. With a healthy, established tree, the roots are stably in the soil/substrate and so are little disturbed by the yanking/tugging inherent is wrapping wire and positioning branches. Your teacher made a serious mistake teaching you to repot first. Don't.

 

[TyroTinker]

Thanks! That makes sense.

 

[BunjaeKorea]

As far as first attempts go this is not bad at all so keep your chin up. Let me break it down for you.

1. Shaping before rewiring is important because the tree is more stable. Generally one can decide what direction to plant by removing a small tip layer of soil to see the nebari. (The teacher should know that).

2. Repotting and rewiring can be done the same year however it is discouraged because it puts immense stress on the tree's system and increases likelyhood of death.

3. One that I see many people get wrong is that the wire should be bent not the branch. It takes experience to know how far a branch can be bent. Use thin flat pliers to bend the wire. Ones without serrated interior grip are better as they dont bite into the wire.

4. Give plenty of recovery time and learn to water well. Watering is an art. Learn to listen to your tree because they WILL tell you what they want.

5. Did you plant roots in that condition or did your teacher show you how to balance root power?

If I may ask, did you learn at a club or at a general nursery?

 

[TyroTinker]

As far as first attempts go this is not bad at all so keep your chin up. Let me break it down for you.

1. Shaping before rewiring is important because the tree is more stable. Generally one can decide what direction to plant by removing a small tip layer of soil to see the nebari. (The teacher should know that).

2. Repotting and rewiring can be done the same year however it is discouraged because it puts immense stress on the tree's system and increases likelyhood of death.

3. One that I see many people get wrong is that the wire should be bent not the branch. It takes experience to know how far a branch can be bent. Use thin flat pliers to bend the wire. Ones without serrated interior grip are better as they dont bite into the wire.

4. Give plenty of recovery time and learn to water well. Watering is an art. Learn to listen to your tree because they WILL tell you what they want.

5. Did you plant roots in that condition or did your teacher show you how to balance root power?

If I may ask, did you learn at a club or at a general nursery?

Thank you for the feedback

I tried to bend the branch only where the wire would be on the outside of the bend. I’ve heard of bending the wire with pliers but I’m not exactly sure how that would work. I assume your supposed to grab the side of the wire with the pliers and avoid touching the wood with the pliers. Do you just hold onto the branch with your other hand when you go to bend? The damage I caused that I noticed was because I tried to go back and put more of a bend into it. I know that I shouldn’t have but I honestly didn’t think twice until it was to late...

I planted the roots as you saw them. I only trimmed 1 or 2 roots that seemed like they should go. They were bigger than the rest, pointing straight down and they did not have many fine roots attached to them. Our teacher only mentioned not to trim to many roots, nothing much more specific than that.

You may ask. This is my first hands on experience with any styling. I have only learned from this site. Also from googling for more information about stuff that I’ve read here. Although I did watch a YouTube video from your teacher and you answered a question I had in the comments

I have mainly only been reading about stuff that applies to deciduous trees and mostly maples because that’s the type of trees that I’ve come to love living where I do. When I learned about this class I knew that junipers were one of the recommended trees for a beginner I knew I should take the class. So for about a week I tried to learn what I could for a beginner with junipers.
Overall I know I could have done better but with a 2 hour class I felt a little rushed. The teacher came by when he could but my tree was better along then some of my neighbors so I think he tried spending more time with them.

 

[TyroTinker]

I concur, the format of the class seems pretty standard..... our club usually does a wiring class and 5-6 months later does the repot due to too many losses. I took a commercial class where we’ve done both at once and the tree I took home took 4 months to recover and the tender branches died back. It could of been overhandling by me but it happened to others also. It took another year to grow mostly into shape.
The good news are procumbens are pretty sturdy plants. Also you are going into winter so the plant won’t be trying to punch out alot of growth for awhile. Around here in the hills near Puget Sound WA I take plants in that condition and bury them to the pot lip in the ground in a sheltered location and cover with leaves with some bark chips to hold things down after watering. Dunno if that will work in zone 5a/b. It seems like you ll need a bit more TLC and protection after everything that was done to it. Cheers

I’m not far from you at all. I’m Marysville Washington zone 8b. When I got home I wired the pot to a board (no benches yet) and put it where it would get a little morning and some noonish sun. Then shaded by large tree of my neighbors for the rest of the day.

 

[BunjaeKorea]

Thank you for the feedback

I tried to bend the branch only where the wire would be on the outside of the bend. I’ve heard of bending the wire with pliers but I’m not exactly sure how that would work. I assume your supposed to grab the side of the wire with the pliers and avoid touching the wood with the pliers. Do you just hold onto the branch with your other hand when you go to bend? The damage I caused that I noticed was because I tried to go back and put more of a bend into it. I know that I shouldn’t have but I honestly didn’t think twice until it was to late...

I planted the roots as you saw them. I only trimmed 1 or 2 roots that seemed like they should go. They were bigger than the rest, pointing straight down and they did not have many fine roots attached to them. Our teacher only mentioned not to trim to many roots, nothing much more specific than that.

You may ask. This is my first hands on experience with any styling. I have only learned from this site. Also from googling for more information about stuff that I’ve read here. Although I did watch a YouTube video from your teacher and you answered a question I had in the comments

I have mainly only been reading about stuff that applies to deciduous trees and mostly maples because that’s the type of trees that I’ve come to love living where I do. When I learned about this class I knew that junipers were one of the recommended trees for a beginner I knew I should take the class. So for about a week I tried to learn what I could for a beginner with junipers.
Overall I know I could have done better but with a 2 hour class I felt a little rushed. The teacher came by when he could but my tree was better along then some of my neighbors so I think he tried spending more time with them.

Thanks I will reply in more detail later. Thanks for watching the vid

 

[BunjaeKorea]

Cool enough! If you are interested in easy learning media I’d highly recommend watching Peter Chan ( Herrons Nursery) onYouTube. Peter is a Brit of over 50 years of experience has a plethora of short, laid-back videos on specific topics. He’s extraordinary knowledgeable and has some great books for us newer Bonsai folks. (Lots of the folks around here with more time on their hands watch Bonsai Mirai videos too, but they are much longer. ) Cheers!

I wouldn't recommend him. Plenty of other much better vids. No offense

 

[BunjaeKorea]

Thank you for the feedback

I tried to bend the branch only where the wire would be on the outside of the bend. I’ve heard of bending the wire with pliers but I’m not exactly sure how that would work. I assume your supposed to grab the side of the wire with the pliers and avoid touching the wood with the pliers. Do you just hold onto the branch with your other hand when you go to bend? The damage I caused that I noticed was because I tried to go back and put more of a bend into it. I know that I shouldn’t have but I honestly didn’t think twice until it was to late...

I planted the roots as you saw them. I only trimmed 1 or 2 roots that seemed like they should go. They were bigger than the rest, pointing straight down and they did not have many fine roots attached to them. Our teacher only mentioned not to trim to many roots, nothing much more specific than that.

You may ask. This is my first hands on experience with any styling. I have only learned from this site. Also from googling for more information about stuff that I’ve read here. Although I did watch a YouTube video from your teacher and you answered a question I had in the comments

I have mainly only been reading about stuff that applies to deciduous trees and mostly maples because that’s the type of trees that I’ve come to love living where I do. When I learned about this class I knew that junipers were one of the recommended trees for a beginner I knew I should take the class. So for about a week I tried to learn what I could for a beginner with junipers.
Overall I know I could have done better but with a 2 hour class I felt a little rushed. The teacher came by when he could but my tree was better along then some of my neighbors so I think he tried spending more time with them.

2 hours is a rush, I agree. You should have been shown how to balance root and foliage power.
Once the tree recovers you can wire out the pads to increase circulation and light penetration. You want flat electronic pliers. They work best and you can pick up a cheap pair for just a few bucks.
Anyway, don't be discouraged because like I said its good for a first try. Now study how to keep it alive.
Junipers are a favourite of professionals too. They are a great all rounder.

 

[BunjaeKorea]

None taken. One of the things I like the best about this forum is that members not only share opinions, but also give data to support their reasoning based upon their experience. I didn’t completely grasp yours, so I‘ll put out mine and perhaps you can do the same so others can see a well reasoned exchange that may benefit all of us here?

1. Peter Chan’s video are geared for the novice, giving clear explanations in plain language and good photos to illustrate such, taught in such a way as to encourage novices.
2. Peter is highly respected in the field of teaching, his books are extremely well accepted and valued for enthusiasts and also Peter has competed and won multiple awards for his bonsai.
3. Herrons Nursery has about the same latitude and climate as our area. (Also why I recommended Ryan Neals Bonsai Mirai videos)
4. The questions came from a novice bonsai enthusiast.

Granted there are multiple other sources of knowledge out there on YouTube and in books that are more detailed also more historical out there for English speaking learners from books like Naka’s Techniques 1 & 2, the Masters’ book of Bonsai by JBA, Adams Bonsai with Japanese Maples to Man Lung Artistic Pot Plants from Wing Lung Bank LTD, but I felt that learning from a source that gives carefully controlled parcels of knowledge at the learners level was more suited in this case.

That said, can you please share your reasoning with us otherwise?

Alright fair enough.
1. Novices need to learn the correct techniques and not all of his techniques are recommend.
2. Well accepted by? That's the big question. If the answer is 'novices' then ask why.
3. Graham Potter is also good, I would say better as far is skill goes. There are plenty of others too.
4. Are you Mr. Chan?

 

[BunjaeKorea]

 

[Cable]

Here is the bottom of my pot right before I added a small amount of soil.
View attachment 272237

In regards to this picture, I noticed that you have the wires crossed after they come out of the drain holes. You might consider not doing that in the future. When they are like that and you crank down to secure the tree it will pull against the spot where they're twisted and squeeze the roots together. It's not as big a deal with a small tree but with a larger tree that can leave the tree rocking in the pot. If you don't twist then as you crank down the tree is pulled straight down with each hole being an anchor point for a more stable hold. Just a thought.

 

[TyroTinker]

In regards to this picture, I noticed that you have the wires crossed after they come out of the drain holes. You might consider not doing that in the future. When they are like that and you crank down to secure the tree it will pull against the spot where they're twisted and squeeze the roots together. It's not as big a deal with a small tree but with a larger tree that can leave the tree rocking in the pot. If you don't twist then as you crank down the tree is pulled straight down with each hole being an anchor point for a more stable hold. Just a thought.

Thanks for the tip

 

[Mame-Mo]

Turns out youtube’s auto translate feature isn’t the best for figuring out what he’s saying

NSFW

 

[BunjaeKorea]

Turns out youtube’s auto translate feature isn’t the best for figuring out what he’s saying

NSFW

Wow that's not cool. Just watch dont listen

 

[coltranem]

I have learned a bit from some Japanese videos just by watching.

 

[plant_dr]

I have learned a bit from some Japanese videos just by watching.

*bonsai* videos, right??