Juniper Noob, pre bonsai setup

[Baku1875]

Hello everyone, got drawn into bonsai by my pops as a hobby, now im trying to get a good start at low cost for developing an interesting plant.

So i took a 16 qt deep fryer colander and lined it with 1mm mesh(not sure but it's small) on the inside, mixed some sifted pumice, sifted coarse perlite, pine bark, and a bit of potting soil, and planted a juniper (parsonii? or p. nana? not sure) that i got for 5 dollars at a local nursery, 2 gallon pot i believe, and placed it at the desired angle to get the design going.

I slip potted it, almost totally undisturbed roots into the mesh pot, and I am bracing for the heavy Miami rains that come in the summer. That is why I leaned towards high drainage even for pre bonsai.

I am thinking of getting a basic contour out of the trunk using heavier gauge copper wire this winter, focusing on growth for the summer. Temporarily leaving it in the shade after the slip potting for at least 1-2 days, but this is why i am asking for input.

Healthwise/design wise, for a prebonsai with room to grow in pot with high drainage, how should I approach the timing of trunk twisting, pruning, wiring, and would you guys suggest any 'moves' at this point to improve the prospects of making this into an interesting bonsai?

 

[Baku1875]

This is the biggest secondary branch off the trunk off to the side

 

[Baku1875]

I gave it a single watering, drainage was super fast, the nursery pot was drying out every 2-3 days (i bought it two weeks ago, kept in 100% sun to get the tips growing) using a wood chopstick, i checked the soil moisture to get an idea for what was in the pot.

The pumice, coarse perlite, bark, potting soil mix underneath is a lot higher drainage, combined with the mesh, i hope the plant can survive the south florida monsoon that is around the corner.

 

[Baku1875]

This is roughly what i would wire the trunk around winter, wonder if i should use raffia?

 

[Kullas]

To me that looks like a parsons juniper. In the hot Florida weather and and in a colander style pot just make sure it dont get to dry.

 

[Baku1875]

Do you think I should place it in full sun right away despite the repotting, or keep it in its partial shade? (slip potted without disturbing the roots) I know it needs a lot of sun to develop foliage.

Would it be safe to try and wire the trunk at least for one curve, or is that 'too many insults' for the summer? I want to focus on development/health/trunk building for at least 12-18 months before doing any manipulation that would slow its growth.

 

[Srt8madness]

Sounds like you answered your own question. You could do some light wiring. It's $5, buy a couple more and experiment

 

[BrightsideB]

I like the foliage on it. You don’t need to worry about foliage not getting adequate h20 from the roots if they aren’t pruned or disrupted. But I agree buy more if you can afford it. It’s nice as a beginner to at least root prune one and get it in a small pot with bonsai soil. Then next year you can prune back and start developing pads. You can do all the work in one sitting but sometimes the health of the tree is at risk. When I started I watched videos of people buying nursery material doing large root pruning then wiring and developing pads so I did it. And found out that my trees didn’t grow much the following year. So it’s good to acquire multiple trees so you simply have something to do. And give yourself the opportunity to practice techniques for when you find a tree you really want as bonsai.

 

[Wires_Guy_wires]

You might want to cover that metal with white paint or something cuz it'll get hawt!

The apex you painted can be wired as such, it looks pretty flexible and if your bends aren't too extreme it doesn't need any raffia. But pick the appropriate time: right now during the active season the junipers bark slips off rather easily. It's better to wire junipers when they're dormant.

I second/third buying a couple more. Can never hurt to have a couple trainers to get the juniper vibe down. Just keep in mind what you did to them and when, and how they respond. That'll help you.

 

[Kullas]

Just a simple slip potting to me is not a major insult. Parsons can girth kinda quick in growing season. So the wire will bite in. If you do wire it, go a little lose and bend slowly the bends you want may take a couple bendings to get there. Little now and a little later. And it maybe flexible enough to do all at once. Its hard to tell that from a pic. Its 5 bucks. Its cheep enough to learn with. I will agree go get 1 or 2 more and experiment. Hands on learning is the best.

 

[Baku1875]

excellent points, I have another pot that i bought at the same time that has two separate smaller Parsons trunks, i'll probably screw around with trunk bends and take notes as to how it reacts from there.

I'm still getting the hang of the south florida growing environment so it's probably worth grabbing a few more and bonsai potting, etc to take notes so I know what to expect in 18 months for my bigger one.

To me that looks like a parsons juniper. In the hot Florida weather and and in a colander style pot just make sure it dont get to dry.

I went ahead and padded the topsoil with a bit of sphagnum moss for moisture 'insurance' for now, it feels like 100F outside this week, no clouds, a medium strength downpour overnight though.

Let's say that big colander gets filled up with phat roots in 18 months, should I downsize to a smaller can (retaining a core root ball of original soil) and add bonsai mix, then downsize 8-12 months after that into a shallower pot with 100% bonsai mix? I would assume that going from 16 qts to 1qt and removing 80% of the roots could kill it in one go?

 

[Baku1875]

I like the foliage on it. You don’t need to worry about foliage not getting adequate h20 from the roots if they aren’t pruned or disrupted. But I agree buy more if you can afford it. It’s nice as a beginner to at least root prune one and get it in a small pot with bonsai soil. Then next year you can prune back and start developing pads. You can do all the work in one sitting but sometimes the health of the tree is at risk. When I started I watched videos of people buying nursery material doing large root pruning then wiring and developing pads so I did it. And found out that my trees didn’t grow much the following year. So it’s good to acquire multiple trees so you simply have something to do. And give yourself the opportunity to practice techniques for when you find a tree you really want as bonsai.

I have 5 big junipers in the ground on an elevated bed behind my house that I planted about 15 years ago (if i remember correctly), gonna post photos of those in a bit.

They were creeping flat, but I decided to do some bungee cord bending on two of them to get them off the ground using a very thin nearby palm tree as an anchor. I'm expecting them to be a bit stressed out, but they have a few running tips active, one is almost upright forming a sideways S shape.

They are enjoying the additional sunlight on the inner branches, I am considering carefully digging up one of the smaller ones and bonsaifying it carefully at some point next year, but first I want to do some trial and error on cheap nursery material first and get my bearings on how these confiers behave.

Also have guava, bougainvillea, and singapore holly air layers a few weeks deep, gonna post threads and pics on those as well. Lots of knowledge in this place, I have been lurking for a few weeks!

 

[Kullas]

excellent points, I have another pot that i bought at the same time that has two separate smaller Parsons trunks, i'll probably screw around with trunk bends and take notes as to how it reacts from there.

I'm still getting the hang of the south florida growing environment so it's probably worth grabbing a few more and bonsai potting, etc to take notes so I know what to expect in 18 months for my bigger one.

I went ahead and padded the topsoil with a bit of sphagnum moss for moisture 'insurance' for now, it feels like 100F outside this week, no clouds, a medium strength downpour overnight though.

Let's say that big colander gets filled up with phat roots in 18 months, should I downsize to a smaller can (retaining a core root ball of original soil) and add bonsai mix, then downsize 8-12 months after that into a shallower pot with 100% bonsai mix? I would assume that going from 16 qts to 1qt and removing 80% of the roots could kill it in one go?

It depends on what you want to do with the tree. If you want a bigger trunk. I would put it in the ground or a grow box. If the tree meets the needs of your design going smaller is the correct action. I wouldn't go over the bottom half of the roots as they come out of the pot.
To me it looks young and could use a couple seasons maturing. You can still do some structural wiring to help shape if its growing out

 

[Baku1875]

A rough blueprint, identifying strong branches at future curve points to produce taper

 

[Shibui]

Should be no problem bending that trunk without raffia. Only needed when bending really stiff branches or really tight curves.

Just be aware that slip potting nursery soil root ball into new free draining mix can have unintended consequences.
Water and roots do not move well between different soil types so it is likely that water will run through the new soil without penetrating well into the old soil ball. Meanwhile roots are taking water out of the old soil to maintain your tree but that water is not being replaced - problems.
Roots, especially circling roots often don't grow out into new soil readily so the tree may not actually have access to the larger soil volume.
Please keep a good eye on this one through the coming heat. You may need to submerge the pot to properly wet the interior root ball.

When slip potting, teasing the roots or cutting a few circling roots helps them move into the surrounding soil. We don't do major root reduction in growing season but cutting a few roots any time of year will not hurt trees.

 

[sorce]

Aye get a few more!

Welcome to Crazy!

Eff wire, it's Florida, you oughtta be able to clip and grow that bitch to that shape with some taper!

Sorce

 

[Baku1875]

Should be no problem bending that trunk without raffia. Only needed when bending really stiff branches or really tight curves.

Just be aware that slip potting nursery soil root ball into new free draining mix can have unintended consequences.
Water and roots do not move well between different soil types so it is likely that water will run through the new soil without penetrating well into the old soil ball. Meanwhile roots are taking water out of the old soil to maintain your tree but that water is not being replaced - problems.
Roots, especially circling roots often don't grow out into new soil readily so the tree may not actually have access to the larger soil volume.
Please keep a good eye on this one through the coming heat. You may need to submerge the pot to properly wet the interior root ball.

When slip potting, teasing the roots or cutting a few circling roots helps them move into the surrounding soil. We don't do major root reduction in growing season but cutting a few roots any time of year will not hurt trees.

good to know, the plant got a HEAVY soaking overnight, the monsoon season is starting up.

I didn't tease it too much, but i poked around with a chopstick at the base and repotted at a 45 degree angle to point the main trunk more vertically.

The pot wasnt root bound yet, a few roots made it to the lower corners of the nursery pot and looked very healthy. The mix I used contains a fair bit of organic material, and i topped it off with some sphagnum moss, hopefully it works out!

 

[Baku1875]

Often the issue here is TOO MUCH rain once dry Spring season ends.

We have kind of been one foot in spring one foot in summer, around mothers' day we had some heavy rain for a few days, then back to dry/drought spring conditions. After last night, it looks like things will go full tilt monsoon and I will avoid watering manually for a long time.

I'm keeping a log of rainfall and manual watering to space things out. In the past I have lost plants to over watering (a nice chunky desert rose that got root rot due to manual watering + summer downpours non stop).

 

[Baku1875]

Aye get a few more!

Welcome to Crazy!

Eff wire, it's Florida, you oughtta be able to clip and grow that bitch to that shape with some taper!

Sorce

Yea, I'm gonna definitely consider that as well. Gonna wait a few weeks to lock in some summer growth and lop off a few of the undesirable branches.

I keep hearing that junipers in development dont like to get pruned, and that the preferred method is to let it bush out and only start pruning if one is ok with a big slowdown in growth, but I do want to get some 'concentration' of growth in those primary branches that I have in mind rather than seeing uniform twigs along the entire trunk.

 

[Baku1875]

Alright, started bending trunk a bit with bungee cords, plant seems very happy 6 days after slip pot.