Japanese white pine help

[Jcmmaple]

So I decided instead of letting it grow and get thicker, I’m choosing to do a shohin. I’m not certain where to begin on pines and it was really nice when I got it but I let it grow and now I don’t know where to cut it. Maybe I should let it thicken up for awhile, I don’t know. I guess I really need to learn more about jwp first.

 

[JosephCooper]

I don't know enough about JWP to give much advise, but I will say to hold back any pruning for a while.

 

[0soyoung]

White pines don't back bud on bare stems - only fasicular buds (at the base of needle clusters). IOW, you will never have foliage where there isn't foliage now. Thus, IMHO, the game is visual foreshortening (bending to make stems appear to be shorter) and grafting.

The first thought that I have is that it may still be possible to bend the trunk between the ground and the first branch(es) so that it will appear shorter (i.e., the first branches will sit closer to ground level) - a corkscrew-ish shape. My second thought is that you'll likely end up having to graft anyway. My remaining quick thought is that life might be more enjoyable if you put it in a pond basket - they are slow growing trees in the ground, in pots. Lastly, keep that foliage near the crotch of the branches alive - don't let it get shaded out - it is likely the heart of your future bonsai, shohin or not.

 

[River's Edge]

Are you aware of the size for a Shohin? The picture above does not look like a possible Shohin. JWP are normally considered for medium to larger size Bonsai. The needle size is more appropriate for medium to large Bonsai. Shohin is 8 inch height overall.

 

[Jcmmaple]

Ok thanks, a little confusing because I’m new at the game but I get the point. I will look for pond baskets in my area but if I can’t find any will a big colander work? Could I cut the branches back with no foliage or no? Either way I will play with the bending to get a good look, i love this hobby or should I say now obsession. I’m always reading and watching videos to learn, but so far this forum has been the most help. So thanks

 

[Jcmmaple]

No I wasn’t aware of the size, but I do now thanks. We’ll plan B, grow bigger haha

 

[erb.75]

Are you aware of the size for a Shohin? The picture above does not look like a possible Shohin. JWP are normally considered for medium to larger size Bonsai. The needle size is more appropriate for medium to large Bonsai. Shohin is 8 inch height overall.

pretty sure this is totally wrong

 

[erb.75]

http://artofbonsai.org/galleries/albek.php

see picture #1. of the pines, JWP is good for shohin

 

[erb.75]

https://robertnochershohinbonsai.wordpress.com/2015/07/10/2-shohin-white-pines/

 

[Jcmmaple]

Ive seen his videos on YouTube and they are good

 

[River's Edge]

pretty sure this is totally wrong

The standard for Shohin is 20 cm. " very small thing" the pot is palm size.
Classification based on size, Page 102 Principles of Bonsai Design
David De Groot published 2015.
20 cm = 20/2.5= 8 inch. What do you consider totally wrong.

 

[0soyoung]

I will look for pond baskets in my area but if I can’t find any will a big colander work?

Sure, a colander would work just as well. I get pond baskets at the big box stores (10"x10" is about $3 a pop).

 

[River's Edge]

The standard for Shohin is 20 cm. " very small thing" the pot is palm size.
Classification based on size, Page 102 Principles of Bonsai Design
David De Groot published 2015.
20 cm = 20/2.5= 8 inch. What do you consider totally wrong.

You are correct in that the JWP can be used for Shohin as noted by Morton Albek. However the tree pictured above appears to have no branches in the portion that would qualify for Shohin. Unless of course the picture is very deceptive.

 

[Jcmmaple]

Unfortunately the lower branches have grown out more than the rest of the others and now the poor guy looks like he is reaching out for a hug.

 

[Jcmmaple]

Well I found pond baskets at Lowe’s, out of curiosity what are the used for?

 

[0soyoung]

Well I found pond baskets at Lowe’s, out of curiosity what are the used for?

A planter or pot for the tree.
Development of fine roots near the trunk requires root pruning which generally means periodically removing the tree from the pot, cutting the roots back, and returning it to the pot. The process tends to slow the growth of the tree even though it is necessary to grow a tree in a pot. In a pond basket or colander this root pruning occurs insitu, without repotting. Root tips that extend though a hole, out into the air, are 'air pruned' because the tips dry and die, stimulating the growth of new roots closer to the trunk.

It is a good way to grow pines, especially slow growing ones. Enhanced growth can occur IF watered more frequently than one would with a solid walled pot. The principle, however, applies to any tree, excepting azaleas/rhododendrons that inherently make a dense fibrous root mass.

 

[Jcmmaple]

Thanks, I got some today and will be putting the pine in the pond basket along with one of my trident maples, although it isn’t doing good. It’s buds are brown and it isn’t blooming at all, I did the peel test and it’s green. I don’t know if they aren’t getting enough water or too much, but I figured it couldn’t hurt anymore to put it in the basket with better soil than the ground.

 

[erb.75]

The standard for Shohin is 20 cm. " very small thing" the pot is palm size.
Classification based on size, Page 102 Principles of Bonsai Design
David De Groot published 2015.
20 cm = 20/2.5= 8 inch. What do you consider totally wrong.

I was just commenting on the comment "JWP are normally considered for medium to larger size Bonsai" I disagree

 

[erb.75]

You are correct in that the JWP can be used for Shohin as noted by Morton Albek. However the tree pictured above appears to have no branches in the portion that would qualify for Shohin. Unless of course the picture is very deceptive.

? where do you get this stuff? no branches in the proportion? what about all those that look like they are about 4 inches above the soil?

 

[M. Frary]

? where do you get this stuff? no branches in the proportion? what about all those that look like they are about 4 inches above the soil?

So judging by that the whole thing is about 6 and one half inches tall.
It looks more like a foot tall. Putting the lowest branch above 6 inches.