Japanese black pine

[pkTheory]

I collected this Pinus thunbergii about a year ago. It is the only jbp that I have so Ive been a bit reluctant to start chopping on it. I have pulled some candles off but I have not removed any branches yet. I would love to hear any opinions on how to style this tree.

 

[bwaynef]

I collected this Pinus thunbergii about a year ago. It is the only jbp that I have so Ive been a bit reluctant to start chopping on it. I have pulled some candles off but I have not removed any branches yet. I would love to hear any opinions on how to style this tree.

I didn't spend a whole lot of time trying to make the pictures bigger to ID it, but P. thunbergii isn't native to Augusta Ga ...or anywhere in America. If you collected this from anywhere but someone's landscape, its probably not JBP.

It does look to be 2-needle, maybe P. virginiana?

 

[october]

Hi pkTheory.. An honest answer would be that this tree is too young for styling. It would need about 7-8 more years of growing before it should be styled. However, if you really want to do something now, but then have patients after. You could do an informal upright style now, putting some bends into the trunk. However, after that, you would need to let it grow for the 7-8 years plus to mature anyway. You could use this as a wiring practice tree. No matter how you slice it. You are lookign at 10 years plus before this will become a nice bonsai.

One thing.. Do not cut the lowest branches. It is these branches that will help the trunk become thicker over time.

Rob

 

[NewWorldBonsai]

Get close up pictures, it's to hard to ID with what you have there.

Rob had some good points. Leave the lower branches for now (especially any that sprout from the base).

Secondly, decide how big of a pine you want. To make an awesome pine bonsai, yes it certainly takes many years. However, you could have a nice small size bonsai in just a few years if we can utilize sacrifice branches, grafting, and a little imagination.

What you can do right now is wire the main trunk once you've figured how your pine will look and how large it will be.

Oh and next time dig up 20- that way it doesn't hurt so much when you kill 12 of them

<-- killed like 60% of the first JBP I worked on lol

 

[rockm]

as mentioned, you most likely have a pinus virginiana, Virginia Pine. It's the most common pine in the east and grows in places that most other pines can't.

Not to be discouraging, but this one is far far FAR too young to make much of anything bonsai wise. Much bigger trees can be converted into bonsai. Most bonsai of any note are made from larger trees that are shortened and cut down to bonsai size. For the most part, small bonsai do not become large bonsai. It is kind of vice versa...

 

[pkTheory]

Im sorry for my lack luster cell phone pictures it is the best I have for a camera at the moment. I collected the tree with my teacher in some woods on campus. He has taught there for over 30 years. During his time teaching hes planted many species throughout the campus. Fire spread the Japanese black pines and White pines 'Pinus strobus'. The tree pictured is a Pinus thunbergii.

I am patient. I don't mind growing my jbp out for 10 years. I would like a final height of around 36 inches. Do I need to identify my primary branches and my sacrifice branches now? Should I break candles or needle pluck the tree any? Can I grow my tree out up-potting or must I find somewhere to put in the ground?

 

[plant_dr]

Your best results will come from finding a place to plant it in the ground to gain some girth in the trunk. You do not need to worry about any refinement tecniques such as needle plucking or candlework at this point. As previously mentioned, you can wire the trunk to put some movement in it; but in all likelihood, the trunk that it has now will not be the trunk it will have later as a bonsai. Several years down the road, after it has gained some inches, you will probably remove most the current main trunk in favor of a low branch to be trained as the new apex. This will give your tree better movement and taper. If, by chance you happen to have a formal upright tree in mind for the (distant) future, pay no attention to all the suggestions about movement.

 

[Adair M]

If you think you want to plant it in the ground, don't plant it straight up. Plant it at an angle. That will start some movement in the tree.

 

[NewWorldBonsai]

Im sorry for my lack luster cell phone pictures it is the best I have for a camera at the moment. I collected the tree with my teacher in some woods on campus. He has taught there for over 30 years. During his time teaching hes planted many species throughout the campus. Fire spread the Japanese black pines and White pines 'Pinus strobus'. The tree pictured is a Pinus thunbergii.

I am patient. I don't mind growing my jbp out for 10 years. I would like a final height of around 36 inches. Do I need to identify my primary branches and my sacrifice branches now? Should I break candles or needle pluck the tree any? Can I grow my tree out up-potting or must I find somewhere to put in the ground?

Growing in ground is always the fastest method. I would highly recommend putting a big flat tile/paver 2-4" below the surface making sure to keep the roots nice and radial. My JBP in ground are probably 20-30% larger than ones of the same age in containers and that's only after 7 months.

Utilizing sacrifice branches correctly is its owns field of study. To try (and fail) to simplify things leave any branches growing close to your nebari alone and tie it down and away from the trunk as they extend. Next select your leader sacrifice branch and let it grow like crazy. From this main trunk line begin forming you envisioned 36" tree.

Try to think of this tree as a lump of clay that you are molding into shape by growing and removing limbs.

This has some good examples of how to use sacrifice branches.

http://www.sidiao.com/class_e.htm

 

[pkTheory]

I think I would like a formal upright version of this tree. I will plant it in the ground. Thank you all for your responses.

 

[Adair M]

Formal upright is the most difficult style to find good material. Your tree does not have branches close enough to the ground to make a good formal upright JBP. It requires more than a straight trunk to be a "Formal Upright".

 

[pkTheory]

I should have no problems grafting lower branches on later though right?

 

[Adair M]

If you graft on low branches, "later", then these new branches will be smaller in diameter than the old branches, which is a major fault for a Formal Upright. So, what will you do? Cut off the old branches? Then you would have large scars on the trunk! Another major fault for a Formal Upright.

 

[pkTheory]

ok, so I need to collect a tree with very low branching for a formal upright?

 

[nathanbs]

My experience with JBP has been that if you chop them down to the lowest branches somewhere around the 5 year point and likely any time before that you will get significant back budding. Roots need to be unmolested leading up to this point as JBP store all of their energy in the roots unlike junipers for instance that store a lot in their foliage. So in your case you should be able to get branches down low by chopping in the next few years. I suppose if you wanted to graft now the grafts could be used as sacrifices to thicken trunk and as potential future branches. Obviously sacrifices would be let run wild and future branches would be restrained with candle pruning.