Is the current bonsai instructional system broken?

[Owen Reich]

I’m going to start this thread by stating that I’ve spent the last 7 years traveling to teach bonsai in most of America save California, Maine, Iowa, and I think one of the states in New England. So, as part of the system, I’ve had an inside look at things.

My sincere hope for this thread would be that nobody gets into a negative mindset. Constructive criticism is great. I appeared on Bjorn’s series in a parody episode I came up with part of, highlighting the faults in other YouTube bonsai people’s content. Was the lighting great at Kouka-en? Not always. However, it’s what was available to unpaid labor in a foreign land.

So, I think making pro’s ricochet around the continent to hastily style 6-8 (please no more) trees in 4 hours - remember there will be two of these the pro does usually in a day, is not effective use of a worth their salt pro’s time. This is something a talented local could be conned.... I mean encouraged to do. It’s worked in many places.

One final thing and I’ll respond once or so a day to the thread. I don’t think we should stop, just restructure. The Mirai online presence is causing some positive ripple effects. Eisei-en has been for a very long time. Anyway, I hope to hear from those who’ve also given this some thought, and have ideas.

photo for gettin’ attention - I collect it in spring.... Cephalanthus occidentalis

 

[Coppersdad]

Don't have enough experience in to what for me is a hobby to be an expert. I am a beginner and a consumer of education. I do have some observations. I ask you to please try to put yourself in the place of the absolute beginner to bonsai:

1. There is no way to determine if what is on the Internet is of value and what is horse manure. A person can only make those determinations after some experience.
2. There is no way to determine what books/magazines would be most helpful to the beginner. A person can only make those determinations after some experience.
3. Frequently, a beginner is advised to join a local club. What happens when no club is available?
4. With a local club, the "demonstration" given by the traveling "expert" is most often directed toward the average (read more experienced) club member and some of the presentation and will be confusing and too rapid for the beginner.
5. With a local club, often "teaching" happens by direct mentoring or within a "study group". Often, a beginner can't find a mentor and the "study groups" are full.
6. The advice, "...ask a member of your local club about..." just does not work for many as there may be no way to even know who to ask!
7. On top of all the above, some clubs are not particularly in the habit of welcoming visitors or new members. A timid person may find this atmosphere off-putting.
8. Mirai online type instruction works well, true. (for those who choose to spend their money that way) What about the beginners in the hobby who are assembling their first trees, soil, tools and pots?
I do respect each of the teachers I've been privileged to hear. I very much appreciate the hard work of the leadership of my local club, volunteers all.
I do want to remind us all that for most of us bonsai is a hobby. Could it be someone might begin to lose enthusiasm and passion when experiencing frustration and too many dead trees?

 

[Adair M]

The “system” you find yourself in is an artifact of the old days when there were only a few “pros”, and for the most part they all lived in Southern California, and they started the traveling “demo and workshops” dog and pony shows.

I agree, it’s a terrible way to teach bonsai.

Boon pretty much reinvented bonsai education when he started his Intensive program. Now, I understand that not everyone can take three days and travel to California several times a year, but the experience can’t be beat. He still has to travel about half the year to meet with various study groups he’s had for years.

With modern technology, videos, and programs such as Mirai Live, instruction is more readily available. But nothing, I feel, can replace the hands on experience, and immediate feedback you get from working with a pro.

Until there are many competent local professionals, I think people will still want to have the “traveling bonsai master” pay a visit to their local club. While I agree the current system is “broken”, I can’t see that there is too much that can be done to “fix” it, at least in the near term.

I know that Bjorn and Ryan are actively trying to curtail their traveling, and focus on making their home gardens a destination for bonsai enthusiasts to visit. I suspect more bonsai pros will try to have similar setups.

Owen, What are your plans for your bonsai business?

 

[Owen Reich]

I agree with almost all above. Especially the part about using an old system when there were only a few pros.

Building a studio / art gallery in East Nashville. The people who really want to do bonsai at a level they can’t get locally will come here or to other hubs that are developing. Nashville will be a bigger one soon.
As a former hobbyist, I teach every workshop with the students’ improvement in mind. The diversity of learning styles as well as the social dynamic of many workshops is forced. Bonsai inspiration doesn’t happen on cue, which is what traveling pros are required to do. Am I jaded? Yes. But I’m also now more objective.
Not sure if I’ll have classes that I run, but perhaps a talented local can do them.

Adam Jones, a pro you should check out, said it best “As bonsai professionals it’s our job to perpetuate these bonsai for the coming generations. We are caretakers of them.”

Lookinf forward to hearing others’ thoughts, and experience level is not important. Feel that others are interested in changing things so everyone is happier.

Quite frankly, the day rates that people complain about are a drop in the bucket compared to most people on speaking / instructional circuits. Brussels Bonsai pays what I consider well for doing a Rendezvous event. $600 is actually quite cheap. A plumber would charge you 3-5x that to fix your stuff. You also cannot contact a plumber to shoot the breeze on messenger. May sound like complaints, but humans need down time when teaching on the road. Many of us put all we have into it, but bonsai instruction should not have to be difficult.

 

[Owen Reich]

As for the business, higher end deciduous pre-bonsai and more refined bonsai. Collecting native deciduous material, and getting bonsai into the nashville culture. One day, there will be a bonsai collection I may curate at a big botanic garden in the making. We shall see.

 

[Adair M]

I agree with almost all above. Especially the part about using an old system when there were only a few pros.

Building a studio / art gallery in East Nashville. The people who really want to do bonsai at a level they can’t get locally will come here or to other hubs that are developing. Nashville will be a bigger one soon.
As a former hobbyist, I teach every workshop with the students’ improvement in mind. The diversity of learning styles as well as the social dynamic of many workshops is forced. Bonsai inspiration doesn’t happen on cue, which is what traveling pros are required to do. Am I jaded? Yes. But I’m also now more objective.
Not sure if I’ll have classes that I run, but perhaps a talented local can do them.

Adam Jones, a pro you should check out, said it best “As bonsai professionals it’s our job to perpetuate these bonsai for the coming generations. We are caretakers of them.”

Lookinf forward to hearing others’ thoughts, and experience level is not important. Feel that others are interested in changing things so everyone is happier.

Quite frankly, the day rates that people complain about are a drop in the bucket compared to most people on speaking / instructional circuits. Brussels Bonsai pays what I consider well for doing a Rendezvous event. $600 is actually quite cheap. A plumber would charge you 3-5x that to fix your stuff. You also cannot contact a plumber to shoot the breeze on messenger. May sound like complaints, but humans need down time when teaching on the road. Many of us put all we have into it, but bonsai instruction should not have to be difficult.

I know Adam Jones. He’s trying to make a living in bonsai in Japan as a foreigner. That’s gotta be tough!

 

[Cable]

3. Frequently, a beginner is advised to join a local club. What happens when no club is available?

It‘s not just that but also that even in a club it can be hard to get good training. I’ve attended several workshops put on by people who are quite skilled at bonsai and the presentations suck. Just because you know something doesn’t mean you can teach it.

7. On top of all the above, some clubs are not particularly in the habit of welcoming visitors or new members. A timid person may find this atmosphere off-putting.

So much this. I’ve seen many new faces at my club and they often look totally lost and uncomfortable. Only once in two years have I seen club leadership welcome newcomers. I always make it a point to try to talk to them but red more than one and only one of me. It can be tough because of them club members only see each other once a month so get to talking with each other and the n00b is left feeling the club was a waste of time. Usually if they stick around a bit or are brave enough to insert themselves into conversation the members are very welcoming like you said the timid ones are often never seen again.

 

[Anthony]

Owen,

please, please, you guys get together write a more science based Bonsai
book.

And let John Public know that commericial grower techniques have no
place in a hobby [ see Perry and Murata ]
That sould end those stupid comments on modern techniques.
Good Luck,
Anthony

 

[Colorado]

Many of us put all we have into it, but bonsai instruction should not have to be difficult.

I hate to break it to ya, but any profession worth pursuing is going to be “difficult.”

I have no doubt that being a traveling bonsai professional is tremendously demanding. So is being an emergency room physician. So is being a high-stakes trial lawyer. So is being a construction laborer.

If a bonsai professional is not going to travel to work on clients trees, nor travel to do demos, nor teach classes at a home garden....then what exactly are you suggesting the role of a bonsai professional is in an un-“broken” system?

Personally, my 2 cents is that the Mirai model is probably the most viable long-term model. Establish a home garden, make it a desirable destination, and create educational materials.

 

[AZbonsai]

Maybe someone could create and promote a national bonsai club format that would address some of the issues brought up as far as education, newcomers, etc. I happen to think Phoenix Bonsai Society does a great job with the aforementioned. Maybe @AZ Newb , being a relatively new member of PBS, could chime in. A strong, well organized club can have a major impact on the quantity and quality of bonsai in a community. IMO

 

[rockm]

I don't know how to answer the question about how to "fix" a problem that's not a problem. It is what it is. I can say, having been at this for more than a couple of decades that people who are probably going to be in things for the long run will seek out professionals and bonsai destinations. I've been lucky in that I found several professional bonsai friends early on that have been excellent instructors over the years. I also live in a pretty decent area for bonsai overall--i.e. just down the road from The National Bonsai and Penjing Museum.

I hardly see things now as "broken." Sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees. This is something of a Golden Age for American bonsai--more and more Japanese trained professionals, excellent materials--from Japanese-made pots, to specialty soils and collected natives trees and even subscription expertise. This wasn't the case only ten years ago. Forget about 20 years ago, when you had to scrounge for bonsai soil ingredients and pay through the nose to import relatively good Japanese pots. Back then, there were no openly available resources, including instructors (some of whom were just snake oil salesmen with absolutely no talent or knowledge, just big mouths--those folks have faded away, though)

FWIW, I've always thought the museum could become a hub for bonsai regionally and nationally. For instance, why not open a bonsai store at the site? The Department of the Interior's HQ has a native American store that's been selling Native American art since the 1930's...similar model for the National Bonsai Museum? A pedigreed source of pots, trees, expertise?

 

[rockm]

Maybe someone could create and promote a national bonsai club format that would address some of the issues brought up as far as education, newcomers, etc.

(no title)

A Beautiful BonsaiIs a Work of Heart Welcome to the American Bonsai Society! Learn More Join Today! Donate! Find a Club! Get Help! Join the American Bonsai Society Today! Membership benefits: BONSAI...

www.absbonsai.org

 

[AZbonsai]

(no title)

A Beautiful BonsaiIs a Work of Heart Welcome to the American Bonsai Society! Learn More Join Today! Donate! Find a Club! Get Help! Join the American Bonsai Society Today! Membership benefits: BONSAI...

www.absbonsai.org

Judging from what others are saying about local clubs it is not having much of an impact.

 

[AZbonsai]

I also live in a pretty decent area for bonsai overall--i.e. just down the road from The National Bonsai and Penjing Museum.

We are not all so fortunate! And I am extremely envious!

 

[Lars Grimm]

Reading between the lines and in my own experience, I think the big problems are 1) a lack of self-awareness of experience level, 2) non-targeted instruction and 3) the divide between deciduous and non-deciduous material.

1) Many early hobbyists think they are better than they are because 2-3 years feels like a long time to them. Many senior hobbyists also think they are better than they are because they have put in the years but not developed their skills to jump to the next level.
2) Professionals that come to give lectures and demos are trying to teach to everyone which is impossible. So, they get bombarded with basic questions which are of no use to the experienced people. They also cannot spend an hour really drilling down to a nuanced topic which the experienced people would appreciate. This creates a situation where everyone just wants to see a 'finished' tree by the end.
3) The techniques and timing of deciduous vs non-deciduous material are very different (although of course there is some overlap). How often have we seen someone working on a pine and they get interrupted with questions about a locally collected red maple?

In most professional disciplines, there are levels of required training to provide a foundation of knowledge and then multiple levels of testing and advancement to ensure people are competent. As a hobby, the knowledge and experience bases are all over the place. Coupled with an internet that is filled with old, out dated and incorrect information (even if much of it is well intentioned), and you get the situation of a broken education system.

 

[penumbra]

I’ve attended several workshops put on by people who are quite skilled at bonsai and the presentations suck. Just because you know something doesn’t mean you can teach it.

And conversely, someone with few developed skills and limited knowledge can be fantastic at presenting.

 

[PABonsai]

Part of the problem I think we have is that Japan is about the size of California. So there is a lot less travel distance to bonsai destinations in Japan. I understand wanting a bonsai garden just like they have in Japan, but then one must remember Americans have a fraction of a percent of the interest in bonsai as Japanese people do. So you have much greater space, much less density of interest and I think that's the driver of what you see. Yes, when the pros were in SoCal driving around Cali as @Adair M mentioned it was much more controlled. But it's very hard for anyone to have interest to drive uncountable hours on their own will to go learn about bonsai. I would never make a 2-3 hour drive to a 1 hour club meeting once a month if that was my only option. Heck my local club is 45 minutes away and I don't like making that drive. I don't think doing bonsai education like they do in Japan will work until you have several highly educated pros spread throughout each state. Now, maybe that's part of the discussion. Maybe ABS should be assertive at training and distribution of professionals?

However I think one of the biggest hurdles is one that is unstated. The fact that this is a hobby for most. If this were a career you would see educational centers quickly crop up, just as in japan. But for those who see bonsai as something they'll only ever SPEND money on rather than earn, you'll be hard pressed to expect them to really commit a significant portion of time and money to go to other states to learn it.

Perhaps ABS needs regional chapters spread all across the states and there needs to be a more formalized, controlled industry? The ABS website is more or less just a directory of contacts.

 

[rockm]

Judging from what others are saying about local clubs it is not having much of an impact.

Um, well, the impact of a National Club, as well as local clubs, depends on MEMBERSHIP. Have you looked into joining and participating in ABS events? They have numerous learning programs, from mentorships, to local and regional learning seminars, as well as regional shows.

 

[rockm]

I hear a lot of complaining that things could be better, BUT all of this depends on people stepping up and shouldering the effort. That takes time and elbow grease, and an ability to take rejection, disappointment and frustration. It boils down to "do you love it enough to let it kill you?" ;-)

There are only a few who have answered that with a battle cry--. Bill Valavanis, who has been at this for more than most anyone here--comes to mind. He's managed to not only make a living at bonsai, but has wrangled his efforts into the premier bonsai exhibition in the country. I know a while ago, there was talk of regional shows based on that model. A cohesive show structure around the U.S. could help foster a more uniform and reliable instructional program as well...

 

[PABonsai]

I hear a lot of complaining that things could be better, BUT all of this depends on people stepping up and shouldering the effort. That takes time and elbow grease, and an ability to take rejection, disappointment and frustration. It boils down to "do you love it enough to let it kill you?" ;-)

And that kind of snobbish attitude is the problem. For me this is no. I want a hobby not a career. Using a man who has a career from it as an example of how we can all enjoy it as a hobby is a pretty poor example.
If the problem posited is the education system, and the users (learners) are complaining then maybe one should listen to them.

I work a job and a half and have a family. Sorry if I'm not devoted enough for you, but bonsai isn't my only pursuit.