I'm getting worried about my new Lebanon cedar.

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

Lookie here, compare yourself to the Med's C4, D4 regions. And look at eastern Turkey...
View attachment 324987

That's a cool map. I think I saw that when I was looking up "mediterranean climate" but didn't know how to translate it into useful zones for the Lebanon. So it looks like Kemaliye would be c1 because it is most certainly not damp here (e1). I thought I had read somewhere along the lines of Lebanon cedar being "the most cold hardy of cedars". C1 Compared to C4 that seems to be the main difference. Would you suggest maybe bringing it into my attached but unheated garage over winter?

 

[Forsoothe!]

That's a cool map. I think I saw that when I was looking up "mediterranean climate" but didn't know how to translate it into useful zones for the Lebanon. So it looks like Kemaliye would be c1 because it is most certainly not damp here (e1). I thought I had read somewhere along the lines of Lebanon cedar being "the most cold hardy of cedars". C1 Compared to C4 that seems to be the main difference. Would you suggest maybe bringing it into my attached but unheated garage over winter?

I think cold is not the question, although I can't be any kind of an expert here, I'm pretty sure a dry winter is more important than anything else, and not too much rain in summer would be 2nd important.

 

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

I think cold is not the question, although I can't be any kind of an expert here, I'm pretty sure a dry winter is more important than anything else, and not too much rain in summer would be 2nd important.

Yeah we get nearly to literally no rain in summer here and winter is cold and snowy in my experience. It looks like on the coldest average day of the year is 19° low on average. I'm new here though so can't confirm this myself.

 

[Forsoothe!]

Yeah we get nearly to literally no rain in summer here and winter is cold and snowy in my experience. It looks like on the coldest average day of the year is 19° low on average. I'm new here though so can't confirm this myself.

Do you see Cedars in the landscape? Do they sell them in local nurseries as landscape plants? That is your best indicator of yes or no.

 

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

Yeah all the local nurseries have atlas all over. I talked to the owner of the nursery I tend to prefer because they have more space and choice. She says she sells all of the Lebanon cedar she orders but she doesn't order a ton because they are expensive, she said she has a big ground planted Lebanon in her front yard that got a bad sunburn in this year's heat wave. Good call, I forgot she said she owned one and I'm sure a nursery owner wouldn't have one in their front yard if it wasn't healthy.

 

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

I appreciate the back and forth there is so much to learn which is one of the things that motivates me in life so I'm absolutely loving it. I'm heading up the bottom of the upslope of the the valley of despair where you recently went from thinking it was easy to realizing that you know nothing. I'm starting to feel like I at least understand what I need to learn.
Also it's good to know that I'm entirely to blame for my poor trees potential death. I'll take my loss of $200 as penance.

 

[cbroad]

It seems now it's just generally losing its green and fading to brown all over.

Don't give up all hope yet. If you haven't trashed it yet, maybe set it aside somewhere and leave it alone for a little bit.

Atlas and Lebanon are the only conifers I've ever seen come back to life after ALL the needles have gone brown and dropped (other than the deciduous types). Normally, brown is the sign of death for conifers.

At the nursery where I worked, someone dropped a huge specimen b&b off that back of the truck, completely obliterating the root ball. All the needles dropped a week later. We wrapped it back up and put it in the shade and two weeks later it reflushed.

I've seen many b&B's go dry because of faulting irrigation, drop every needle and then come back. I've seen it happen in the landscape too. Deodar might be on that list also...

Not saying yours will bounce back, but I've seen it happen multiple times.

Good luck!

 

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

Don't give up all hope yet. If you haven't trashed it yet, maybe set it aside somewhere and leave it alone for a little bit.

Atlas and Lebanon are the only conifers I've ever seen come back to life after ALL the needles have gone brown and dropped (other than the deciduous types). Normally, brown is the sign of death for conifers.

At the nursery where I worked, someone dropped a huge specimen b&b off that back of the truck, completely obliterating the root ball. We wrapped it back up and put it in the shade and two weeks later it reflushed.

I've seen many b&B's go dry because of faulting irrigation, drop every needle and then come back. I've seen it happen in the landscape too.

Not saying yours will bounce back, but I've seen it happen multiple times.

Good luck!

I appreciate it. I definitely haven't given up hope yet and I've got it in the shade. I've got a safe probe hole spot for my moisture meter so I'm just trying to keep it at mid-moist for now and misting it a few times a day since I work from home. The heatwave seems to be letting off a bit so hopefully that'll give it a chance. I'm considering it a learning experience, that just because it says full sun doesn't mean it can handle 100° and full sun. My amur loved it though.

 

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

Don't give up all hope yet. If you haven't trashed it yet, maybe set it aside somewhere and leave it alone for a little bit.

Atlas and Lebanon are the only conifers I've ever seen come back to life after ALL the needles have gone brown and dropped (other than the deciduous types). Normally, brown is the sign of death for conifers.

At the nursery where I worked, someone dropped a huge specimen b&b off that back of the truck, completely obliterating the root ball. All the needles dropped a week later. We wrapped it back up and put it in the shade and two weeks later it reflushed.

I've seen many b&B's go dry because of faulting irrigation, drop every needle and then come back. I've seen it happen in the landscape too. Deodar might be on that list also...

Not saying yours will bounce back, but I've seen it happen multiple times.

Good luck!

So if you were to buy a 15 gallon Lebanon B&B with the intent of getting it in a pot how/when/over what period of time would you do it. My current one I'll be leaving alone unless it makes a sudden miraculous bounce back. It seems like unless I go 5 gallon or lower its going to be B&B. My plan right now is to buy in early March and try to get a feel for how large of a pot I'll need for a mid-April repot or whenever it's "just about to bud". I'm thinking of going slightly deeper than a typical bonsai pot for the first repot to do as little actual root disturbance as possible. This is based off the pretty limited info I've been able to find on cedar bonsai.

Edit: also I'm only planning to remove extra clay from half and bare rooting the other.

 

[cbroad]

@ProfessorFarnsworth
The only experience I have purposefully barerooting a conifer b&b was on a hinoki and it didn't end well... I also need to admit I don't really keep any conifers (only a bald cypress and two junipers), I don't seem to do well with them and really, I prefer deciduous.

You should always follow the half bareroot method (HBR) with conifers, they're a completely different animal compared to deciduous.

Personally, I'd steer clear of b&b conifers until I have more experience. I'd try to find a container grown specimen (no clay).

The balled and contained (B&C) trees can be more tricky than b&bs because you get two different layers of roots: fibrous roots on the outside in good substrate that's connected to crappy ones in hard clay.

 

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

@ProfessorFarnsworth
The only experience I have purposefully barerooting a conifer b&b was on a hinoki and it didn't end well... I also need to admit I don't really keep any conifers (only a bald cypress and two junipers), I don't seem to do well with them and really, I prefer deciduous.

You should always follow the half bareroot method (HBR) with conifers, they're a completely different animal compared to deciduous.

Personally, I'd steer clear of b&b conifers until I have more experience. I'd try to find a container grown specimen (no clay).

The balled and contained (B&C) trees can be more tricky than b&bs because you get two different layers of roots: fibrous roots on the outside in good substrate that's connected to crappy ones in hard clay.

Yeah I was trending toward just completely avoiding it by sticking with a 5 gallon that comes in a container and no ball from what the nursery said. I have a couple maple and bald cypress, a ficus and serissa but I just love the conifers for some reason especially the short needled ones. I have an alberta spruce, 2 juniper, an atlas cedar, 2 Lebanon and a hinoki so far but most of the conifers will have their first work done in spring.

 

[Alain BERTRAND]

I know most people have difficulties with Lebanon cedar, but I have a totally different experience.

This is a tree my mother had been growing for maybe 25 years, never wired it, almost never fed it. It has a nice shape but it is almost entirely natural with my mother hardly pruning it.
I took it over 3 years ago when she became unable to take care of it. This is a that time that it lost 2 branches (though in fact, these to dead branches are not losses to me). From what I had read about Lebanon cedar, I was quite anxious when I repotted at the beginning of 2019. I barerooted it like a bareroot all my trees, including pines, but cut less root than usual. I also put it in a somewhat bigger than needed pot. Since then, it grows slowly but seems to be fine.
I will try to put it a more adapted pot next time I repot it.

 

[ProfessorFarnsworth]

I know most people have difficulties with Lebanon cedar, but I have a totally different experience.
View attachment 325022
This is a tree my mother had been growing for maybe 25 years, never wired it, almost never fed it. It has a nice shape but it is almost entirely natural with my mother hardly pruning it.
I took it over 3 years ago when she became unable to take care of it. This is a that time that it lost 2 branches (though in fact, these to dead branches are not losses to me). From what I had read about Lebanon cedar, I was quite anxious when I repotted at the beginning of 2019. I barerooted it like a bareroot all my trees, including pines, but cut less root than usual. I also put it in a somewhat bigger than needed pot. Since then, it grows slowly but seems to be fine.
I will try to put it a more adapted pot next time I repot it.

That's a beautiful cedar! I'm definitely going to stick with these guys. Something being difficult has never stopped me before. I'm happy to find out I have a compatible climate here! I'll deal with difficult, I'm not willing to constantly kill trees to try something impossible over and over though.

 

[Pine_nut]

That's a beautiful cedar! I'm definitely going to stick with these guys. Something being difficult has never stopped me before. I'm happy to find out I have a compatible climate here! I'll deal with difficult, I'm not willing to constantly kill trees to try something impossible over and over though.

How are your cedars doing? I’ve acquired quite a few in the last year and am learning what I can. I’m curious to hear how things are going for you.

 

[I_I_am_not_a_cat]

I appreciate it. I definitely haven't given up hope yet and I've got it in the shade. I've got a safe probe hole spot for my moisture meter so I'm just trying to keep it at mid-moist for now and misting it a few times a day since I work from home. The heatwave seems to be letting off a bit so hopefully that'll give it a chance. I'm considering it a learning experience, that just because it says full sun doesn't mean it can handle 100° and full sun. My amur loved it though.

What ever happened to your deodar cedars? I just purchased one and am worried after reading your 2 threads as mine is also B&B in clay.