How would you get started on this giant kishu?

[electraus]

Hi everyone,

I recently acquired this huge kishu from a bonsai nursery near me and am having trouble figuring out how to get started with a piece of material this large and raw. I don’t see any substantial interior branching and most of the foliage is on the larger, much less pliable branches.

My thinking is making the angle in the first pic the front, cutting back the larger exterior branches to allow more sunlight to penetrate into the interior and giving it a few years for the interior branching to develop. I’d appreciate any suggestions/advice. Thanks in advance!

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Can you post some pictures of the bottom 12" of the trunk - where you think you want the front to be?

 

[bwaynef]

I'd start by cleaning it. Remove weak foliage, foliage that hangs down, and foliage between the crotches (½ - 3/4" of the crotch). That will get you more intimately familiar and will really change the look of the tree. It will also set it up for a healthy growing season. Everything else flows from that.

 

[electraus]

Can you post some pictures of the bottom 12" of the trunk - where you think you want the front to be?

Sure! Here is what I’m thinking for the front. Happy to post other angles if needed!

 

[shimbrypaku]

On another subject, how well does it drain when you water it? Do you have standing water in the container after a good watering?
Thanks

 

[Bonsai Nut]

The reason why I am asking for a closer photo of the trunk is that there appear to be tiny tufts of foliage down there. They are very important - do not remove them (at least not until you have figured out your future design).

You have a classic Chinese juniper problem. You have a thick trunk... but no one ever trimmed the primary branches, so they are straight and ugly. Almost ALL of them need to go if you want to build a believable bonsai. However you have to make sure you know what you want to do, first, and you have to work your way there carefully, second, because if you remove too much foliage from a juniper all at once you could kill it.

 

[electraus]

On another subject, how well does it drain when you water it? Do you have standing water in the container after a good watering?
Thanks

It drains well enough. I can tell there are a ton of roots in the container because the nursery owner told me he grew the trunk out using the method where you allow the roots to escape from the nursery container into the ground and it hasn’t had root work since it was torn away from the ground. I don’t think I quite understand what you’re asking in the second part of your question.

 

[electraus]

The reason why I am asking for a closer photo of the trunk is that there appear to be tiny tufts of foliage down there. They are very important - do not remove them (at least not until you have figured out your future design).

You have a classic Chinese juniper problem. You have a thick trunk... but no one ever trimmed the primary branches, so they are straight and ugly. Almost ALL of them need to go if you want to build a believable bonsai. However you have to make sure you know what you want to do, first, and you have to work your way there carefully, second, because if you remove too much foliage from a juniper all at once you could kill it.

Was the picture I provided not good? I can take another tomorrow if needed.

Yeah, I assumed that removing all the large, thick branches was what would need to happen. I’ll also be joining my local bonsai club this month and will be taking it there for more help, but I want to get as many opinions as possible because it does have a very nice trunk for the price I bought it at.

My understanding regarding pruning Kishus from a Bonsai-U episode is that you can safely remove up to 50-60% of the foliage without the tree reverting to juvenile foliage. Does that sound about right?

 

[bwaynef]

See if you can find International Bonsai 1987/No. 2. Developing Driftwood Style Juniper Bonsai. Also, a bonsaify YT video on the most common newbie mistake or something like that. Both will show you how to develop branching from ...branches that aren't there yet. That is, you'll grow your own branches w/o having to bend thick branches awkwardly into place.

(but the whole process starts w/ cleaning the tree as I mentioned above.)

 

[electraus]

See if you can find International Bonsai 1987/No. 2. Developing Driftwood Style Juniper Bonsai. Also, a bonsaify YT video on the most common newbie mistake or something like that. Both will show you how to develop branching from ...branches that aren't there yet. That is, you'll grow your own branches w/o having to bend thick branches awkwardly into place.

(but the whole process starts w/ cleaning the tree as I mentioned above.)

Awesome! I’ll clean the tree like you mentioned, look out for a copy of that issue of International Bonsai and watch that video. I also will be joining my local bonsai club this month and I’m hoping there’s someone there that could help me learn how to scion graft in case there aren’t enough smaller branches in the right places. I’ve been doing a lot of reading on grafting, but am not actually going to get my first round of practice on cheaper material until a bit later in the winter, so hopefully I can find someone to help me with this piece if needed. Thanks!

 

[bwaynef]

That article and video detail how proper treatment of material allows you to build the tree from backbuds.

 

[shimbrypaku]

It drains well enough. I can tell there are a ton of roots in the container because the nursery owner told me he grew the trunk out using the method where you allow the roots to escape from the nursery container into the ground and it hasn’t had root work since it was torn away from the ground. I don’t think I quite understand what you’re asking in the second part of your question.

Just an issue I have had with nursery stock that was root bound, when watering the water would pond on top of the root ball, taking some time to percolate to the drain holes in the bottom.

Thanks

 

[Bonsai Nut]

Awesome! I’ll clean the tree like you mentioned

Just be really careful that you don't remove the material you need for the future of the tree. In this case, the interior "weak" growth may be really important. Your goal is to shift the strength of the tree from the exterior of the long, thick branches, to the interior and weaker branches. You may even be able to get interior buds to pop if you open up the interior of the tree. So a person like @bwaynef with a lot of experience can wade in and know what growth can be removed. But I would personally not touch anything on the bottom 12" of the trunk - no matter how weak or spindly it looks. It is a common mistake for beginners to go in and strip out ALL interior growth until they are left with something that looks like a poodle topiary. You want to strip out the interior growth of the big thick branches which you will be removing in the future. The rest you want to leave alone. Any small growth on the trunk leave alone. Any thin branches coming out of the trunk leave alone. Any small branches/buds at the base of thick branches leave alone. These will be the foundations for your tree's future.

 

[bwaynef]

That's absolutely fair, and I should've picked up on the hints you were dropping to that effect earlier. Those two references I've mentioned illustrate the point, but someone inexperienced might clean out the important stuff w/o knowing.