How to tell the difference between a hornbeam and a beech?

[Gabler]

@leatherback has it right. There are differences between European and American hornbeams and beeches, but the differences between European beeches and European hornbeams are the same as the differences between American beeches and American hornbeams (a.k.a. ironwood or musclewood). In American hornbeams, the difference is actually more pronounced, since the buds aren't even half a centimeter, whereas the beech buds on both species are nearly an inch long.

From OregonState.edu



Carpinus caroliniana from TreeTopics.com



Carpinus betulus, also from Oregon State

 

[Gabler]

Given the choice, I prefer American beech over European, but European hornbeam over American. All four species are excellent, though. That's just a matter of personal aesthetic taste.

 

[Gabler]

Hop hornbeam isn’t a hornbeam either. It’s part of the birch family. I’d guess that stump is a beech from the bark, but difficult to tell without seeing buds.

They're all in the birch family, Betulaceae. Beech are in the family Fagaceae, along with oaks and chestnuts.

 

[leatherback]

unbelievable... This place never changes... You obviously know squat about American Hornbeam...

so.. come with concrete examples. So far you have just been pissing people off, instead of adding any usefull information.

I am still waiting for your explanation how my European perspective on the identifying differences between Fagus and Carpinus are wrong for your unique american perspective.

 

[_#1_]

unbelievable... This place never changes... You obviously know squat about American Hornbeam... Sure the beech pics of buds work but the others aren't even close...

I was just comparing notes with post 4-5. To be fair, OP asked the differences between Beech and A. Hornbeam, referencing the title.

Are you telling me the European guys' info on Beech buds are wrong??

Anyways, I went out and took a quick pic of my A. Hornbeam buds. Mines on the right. Looks similar to post 4, but mine has little white speckles hmmm


Trunk look similar enough to post 5. Mines on the right. Similar color and texture trunk. With light blotches.

 

[ThornBc]

@Microscopic the light blotches are crustose lichens or the marks left by them, they easily grow on the smooth bark of young beeches and hornbeams (American and European)

 

[_#1_]

@Microscopic the light blotches are crustose lichens or the marks left by them, they easily grow on the smooth bark of young beeches and hornbeams (American and European)

Ahhh, note taken! Thank you.

So the most undeniable characteristic is the buds. Am I right to say most if not all American native trees have different shape and size buds than that of American and European Beech?

 

[Woocash]

They're all in the birch family, Betulaceae. Beech are in the family Fagaceae, along with oaks and chestnuts.

Do you know? I didn’t think to check which family hornbeam are in, I just knew that hop hornbeam isn’t actually a hornbeam. So thanks, you learn something new every day.

 

[Jcmmaple]

@Microscopic, that’s a nice tree. I’m American by the way, I think someone had me confused by the other guy. All arguments aside I love American hornbeam, they are everywhere. They are easy to work with and I have found no problems cutting branches flush with die back. Haven’t tried beech, i heard the have 1 flush a year. Hornbeams grow up until fall, would love to see pics of others hornbeams or beech for that matter.

 

[_#1_]

I’m American by the way, I think someone had me confused by the other guy.

Thanks @Jcmmaple, it's gonna be a long long project. Been letting the leader run wild, and to a degree some main branches as well to see how far the large chop wound will close. I was amazed how it survived with almost not feeder roots!

And, while I was addressing john's statement towards leatherback, I actually got you confused with OP. Both end with "maple", AND from Carolina!

 

[Jcmmaple]

No, it’s cool. Would like to see the progress you make on it. Have you thought of carving on it, that would be a cool tree to do it on. I’m more the natural style, I like making it look like you would see in the woods. Like Walter palls fairy tale trees.

 

[Hack Yeah!]

American hop hornbeam

 

[Hack Yeah!]

American beech

 

[Hack Yeah!]

American hornbeam

 

[leatherback]

Am I right to say most if not all American native trees have different shape and size buds than that of American and European Beech?

Pretty much every species has their own form, shape size. All (?) beeches have a very identifiable shape, which you can see in many posts. The buds of hornbeam are more easily confused with other species.

 

[Jcmmaple]

Thanks for sharing a pic of a hop hornbeam, the buds seem to be on the middle of beech and hornbeam. Nice trees by the way.

 

[SouthernMaple]

well it looks like I have a beech


I couldn't find any hornbeams

 

[SouthernMaple]

Don't let guys from Europe try to tell you what a hornbeam looks like.... Their's are very different than ours. Beech hold their leaves in the winter and have very distinctive long pointy buds...very easy to identify typically... Hop Hornbeam also hold their leaves thru winter but they are a little darker brown than beech but are typically found in the similar locations to beech. Hop Hornbeam also has what I describe as shaggy bark. American Hornbeam, on the other hand, have smooth grey bark with what appears to almost be a muscular trunk...and very small leaves. They are nearly always found just above the flood plain of creeks and rivers. Don't be enticed by the big roots on hornbeams...in the long run you are better off finding ones with smaller roots...they will develop nicely in a container, where as the large roots will always look awkward.

well it looks like I have a beech
View attachment 352669

I couldn't find any hornbeams

unless this is a hornbeam

 

[leatherback]

well it looks like I have a beech

I would say so; No doubt about it. But of course, from a European perspective on things.

 

[leatherback]

unless this is a hornbeam

To me, it does not look like a hornbeam.
If it were growing here, I would look in the area of prunus or perhaps a type of birch. But in a general "what could this be", local knowledge has the edge.