How thick should a japanese maple branch be before air layering

[Mashu]

Last summer, the japanese maple in my front yard shot out 4 branches from the base of the trunk. I was wondering how thick they should be before air layering. I am concerned because if I don't air layer them, my parents will just prune them off. Pic related: its the branches. My thumb for scale.

 

[Aaronkslater]

fyi, those seem to be shooting from below a graft which means they will not be the same foliage and growth characteristics as the rest of the tree. that may be what you are looking for anyway.? If you air layer them they will show the characteristics of the root stock, which I think is usually a standard green Japanese maple cultivar.

I haven't air layered anything that small but I think it can be done... maybe someone else will chime in on that part.

 

[Mashu]

Yeah, It's a completely different foliage than the top graft, but I just don't want to see potential trees go to waste especially since Japanese Maples are my favorite tree.

 

[0soyoung]

About 3/8ths to 1/4 inch (about 50 mm) or larger. Smaller a. palmatum branches/twig/shoots tend to die. In other be words, I think the stem needs to be at least two, maybe three, years old. On the other hand, young shoots tend to be relatively easy to root as cuttings.

Cutting a girdle (aka 'ring de-barking') provokes a degree of damage reaction. Generally this is clogging just a superficial layer of the xylem. On thin stems, this 'superficial layer' amounts to essentially all, so the foliage above desiccates and it becomes lifeless. To some extent this likely also happens with a cutting, but it sealing in the xylem water. With a small cutting it is practical to put it in a terrarium to limit water loss via transpiration while roots grow. With air-layers, such a terrarium isn't a practical possibility.

... not sure if all of this is making sense. Better wording just ain't happening right now

 

[Fonz]

About 3/8ths to 1/4 inch (about 50 mm) or larger.

5 mm

 

[Mashu]

I guess I could try one, since they are about 3/8 inch, and if it dies, no problem, I'll just cut my losses and continue with a big boi air layer.

 

[GrimLore]

I am concerned because if I don't air layer them, my parents will just prune them off. Pic related: its the branches. My thumb for scale.

Prune them off, having growth below the graft will just leave a mess of "who knows what". Serious, I have been playing with Maples and Fruit trees for a long time - grafted bad, cuttings from the actual stock good - take it or leave it, your time not mine but honest don't bother.

Grimmy

 

[Mashu]

Prune them off, having growth below the graft will just leave a mess of "who knows what".

Out of curiosity, what could go wrong in regards to growth below the graft?

 

[0soyoung]

5 mm

Right!

What's a factor of 10 among friends?

 

[Mashu]

Right!

What's a factor of 10 among friends?

We're all here for you.

 

[sorce]

Out of curiosity, what could go wrong in regards to growth below the graft?

You know How Dr. Malcolm said "life will find a way" ?

Life knows when it is on BS too, that tree doesn't want to be grafted. The roots know they are receiving BS energy from the grafted stock. So it is trying like hell to be natural.
IMO...if you leave them on AT ALL you stand a better chance at losing the top.

Just like Unnatural lead to breeding dinosaurs....
"Who knows what" I take to be, generally an ass load of ugly we can't determine since it's on the other side of Natural.

As far as regular JM for Bonsai.
Mach says yeah! So I'm all for it.

But a few seedlings shipped to you is a lot cheaper than that yard JM I reckon.
Even if you only stand a 1% chance of harming it.

Sorce

 

[twisted trees]

About 3/8ths to 1/4 inch (about 50 mm) or larger. Smaller a. palmatum branches/twig/shoots tend to die. In other be words, I think the stem needs to be at least two, maybe three, years old. On the other hand, young shoots tend to be relatively easy to root as cuttings.

Cutting a girdle (aka 'ring de-barking') provokes a degree of damage reaction. Generally this is clogging just a superficial layer of the xylem. On thin stems, this 'superficial layer' amounts to essentially all, so the foliage above desiccates and it becomes lifeless. To some extent this likely also happens with a cutting, but it sealing in the xylem water. With a small cutting it is practical to put it in a terrarium to limit water loss via transpiration while roots grow. With air-layers, such a terrarium isn't a practical possibility.

... not sure if all of this is making sense. Better wording just ain't happening right now

Makes perfect sense to me. Well said.

 

[Mashu]

But a few seedlings shipped to you is a lot cheaper than that yard JM I reckon.
Even if you only stand a 1% chance of harming it.

Good point, I'll just order some seedlings then

 

[sorce]

Good point, I'll just order some seedlings then

And cut them Damn suckers off!

And try to root em!

Sorce

 

[GrimLore]

Out of curiosity, what could go wrong in regards to growth below the graft?

It will be whatever the root stock is, and no telling unless you personally know the person that did it...

On the bright side if the taper and such is proper at the graft joint in a couple of short seasons you can blend the two wiring, letting the first pass dig in a bit, then reverse wire to not only blend the grafting scar but gnarl up the bark making it not a big deal.

It is an individual process, simple but effective and in reality if a good graft is done properly with good stock(s) AND treat as I stated will yield a healthy plant

Grimmy

 

[Cable]

You know How Dr. Malcolm said "life will find a way" ?

Life knows when it is on BS too, that tree doesn't want to be grafted. The roots know they are receiving BS energy from the grafted stock. So it is trying like hell to be natural.
IMO...if you leave them on AT ALL you stand a better chance at losing the top.

Fascinating, I never considered that.

On a side note, when I was a kid there was a crabapple next to my bus stop that had been top grafted (I think a weeper ). The graft started to grow, which wasn't super noticeable in the tangle of branches most of the year but in the spring the two sections flowered different colors! So, the bottom of the tree was pink and the top white (or vice-versa doesn't matter). It looked pretty cool really.

 

[Mashu]

With a sense of pride, I decided to leave one branch growing for an attempt to air layer it. It continued to grow and to be completely honest, I forgot that I left the air layer on. I had almost completely disregarded this branch successfully rooting as a possibility. However, when I decided it was time to remove it (For aesthetic reasons) today, I found a small root ball. I promptly put it in a pot and badabing, I had my first successful air layer! I was wondering though, with a rootball so small, should I remove some foliage from the top of the plant? or is it a thing that the roots need the leaves to grow properly?

 

[jmw_bonsai]

With a sense of pride, I decided to leave one branch growing for an attempt to air layer it. It continued to grow and to be completely honest, I forgot that I left the air layer on. I had almost completely disregarded this branch successfully rooting as a possibility. However, when I decided it was time to remove it (For aesthetic reasons) today, I found a small root ball. I promptly put it in a pot and badabing, I had my first successful air layer! I was wondering though, with a rootball so small, should I remove some foliage from the top of the plant? or is it a thing that the roots need the leaves to grow properly?
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Unless you see problems with it supporting the top half, id just keep it happy thru dormancy with regular water and sun conditions, keep stress to a minimum.
I will often cut back a larger air-layer just before leaf out in spring, but with this size, id just let it work it out on its own.

And congrats!!!

 

[cbroad]

@Mashu
Did you secure the layer to the pot or to a stake? Really really important to do while you wait for the layer to establish.