Help With Stunted Pine Seedlings

[Paradox]

Any particular reason why protect from rain? They are native to this country and it rains like 400 days a year here

Because as you stated, the soil is staying too wet

 

[leatherback]

Any particular reason why protect from rain? They are native to this country and it rains like 400 days a year here

pots do not drain like your garden does. And these are weak, indicating wet feel already.

 

[czaczaja]

Because as you stated, the soil is staying too wet

Sorry I was half asleep writing that. Long week. I've moved them outside and under a canopy.

 

[Eric Schrader]

My recent video Scots pines was of three-year olds. The largest black pines I've gotten in 1 year were greenhouse grown the entire time - and about 6" tall, with about a pencil size trunk. But the majority of them are more like 2-3" and a trunk half that size.
As for Scots pines - as I mentioned in the video, I'm not an expert but I think they are comparable in vigor.
Contrary to what others have said - I would think your temps are actually too cold (for the growing season...fine for dormancy.) 80-85F (27-29C)is about ideal for a pine assuming all else is good.
I don't see any obvious signs of disease but treating with something to control root rot on pines is normally a good idea.

There seems to be something seriously wrong with my pine seedlings.
They have germinated around march and have 'grown' well until around August.
They have made no visible progress since, they are potted in a well draining soil and get plenty of light.
I have watched some of @Eric Schrader vids where his 9 month old pines are a thickness of a pencil and not even comparable to mine.
All help welcome guys

 

[Paradox]

I don't see any obvious signs of disease....

You don't think the color of the needles of the seedlings in the picture to be indicative of a problem?

 

[czaczaja]

My recent video Scots pines was of three-year olds. The largest black pines I've gotten in 1 year were greenhouse grown the entire time - and about 6" tall, with about a pencil size trunk. But the majority of them are more like 2-3" and a trunk half that size.
As for Scots pines - as I mentioned in the video, I'm not an expert but I think they are comparable in vigor.
Contrary to what others have said - I would think your temps are actually too cold (for the growing season...fine for dormancy.) 80-85F (27-29C)is about ideal for a pine assuming all else is good.
I don't see any obvious signs of disease but treating with something to control root rot on pines is normally a good idea.

Thanks Eric! You say no obvious signs of a disease so you think the purple color and needle shriveling would be normal for winter/dormancy? As for root rot control, do you have anything specific in mind or just water with some fungicide once the next watering is due?

 

[Paradox]

Thanks Eric! You say no obvious signs of a disease so you think the purple color and needle shriveling would be normal for winter/dormancy? As for root rot control, do you have anything specific in mind or just water with some fungicide once the next watering is due?

I have had scots pines since the first year I have been keeping bonsai and this is definitely not normal for scots.

Here are pictures of my 3 scots pines taken just a few minutes ago.
They have been sitting on my bench outside and have been exposed to temperatures below 30 F a few times this fall/winter already.



The first one might be a bit paler in color than I would like so Ill need to look at that come spring, however it always has had a slightly different color than the other two, probably because its a different cultivar perhaps.

 

[leatherback]

I would think your temps are actually too cold (for the growing season...fine for dormancy.) 80-85F (27-29C)is about ideal for a pine assuming all else is good.

Scots Pine thrive in areas much cooler than that though..?

 

[Paradox]

@czaczaja
I can't tell from the pictures. Are there buds in the center of each of the tips of those seedlings?
How do they look? If possible, can you post a closeup of some of them?
That could give us an indication of how they are doing.

 

[czaczaja]

@czaczaja
I can't tell from the pictures. Are there buds in the center of each of the tips of those seedlings?
How do they look? If possible, can you post a closeup of some of them?
That could give us an indication of how they are doing.

The taller ones are 'closed' if you know what I mean so its hard to tell but the small ones visibly have 2-3 tiers of needles and there is what looks like a white fluffy bud on top of each.

 

[Paradox]

The taller ones are 'closed' if you know what I mean so its hard to tell but the small ones visibly have 2-3 tiers of needles and there is what looks like a white fluffy bud on top of each.

OK the taller ones are the worst looking of the bunch and cant see any buds.

The smaller ones look like they do have buds there. They shouldn't be open as they are next year's buds but as long as they look greenish and not brown and shriveled there is hope for them to pull through in the spring but you are going to have to watch the watering and soil moisture. They will be weak so I wouldnt plan on doing any work on them and just let them grow and get stronger..

 

[czaczaja]

OK the taller ones are the worst looking of the bunch and cant see any buds.

The smaller ones look like they do have buds there. They shouldn't be open as they are next year's buds but as long as they look greenish and not brown and shriveled there is hope for them to pull through in the spring but you are going to have to watch the watering and soil moisture. They will be weak so I wouldnt plan on doing any work on them and just let them grow and get stronger..

Yeah I'll let them be. I have lots of new seeds stratifying so hopefully that will keep me busy next season

 

[Eric Schrader]

Thanks Eric! You say no obvious signs of a disease so you think the purple color and needle shriveling would be normal for winter/dormancy? As for root rot control, do you have anything specific in mind or just water with some fungicide once the next watering is due?

Purple coloring is often cold adaptation in young pines. I see it in 1YP JBP all the time. They don't do that when they're older though.
As for the shriveling needles - obviously they're not healthy - but the needles themselves do not appear to have any blight on them. They are likely shriveling due to a problem with the stem or roots. But the seedling needles, which are more like a bract, tend to shrivel also when the trees are just not as vigorous.

As for root rot - You'll never get root pathogens under control on pines unless you get your watering interval and soil conditions right. You can treat and get some symptoms under control with fungicides, but often once they're infected it's often a losing battle. (particularly with young seedlings.) So work on the cultural conditions and start another batch of seeds once you figure it out. (I think the dead pine in my batch for the 6-year contest was infected as a seedling and died 6 years later from the same infection...but I'd need lab results to be sure.)

As to @leatherback 's point about temps - like I said, not an expert with Scots Pines - but in general the metabolic processes in pine trees and many other plants function optimally in the temp range I mentioned. Natural environments are subject to so many factors. And just because something can "win" in a particular environment doesn't mean it's the right one for optimal growth. In my experience pines grow fast in hot conditions...but that's during the growing season. They also need a cooler dormancy period typically. But I think he's right - your problem is probably due to over-watering / wet conditions.