Help with cuttings please :)

[Clorgan]

I really enjoy the contrasts/similarities in various cutting propagation methods... what works for some..

Because I am very “green” to this world.. I always take a decent amount of cuttings to test varying lengths, directional chops vs. internode location, placement, “pre-cutting” processes (if any), temperature..Ect.

There are thousands of variables, some aren’t even actively considered (such as certain climate ranges causing temperature shifts... also the amount of care you provide)

I feel that you have your own cutting “game”, as it were, and it us up to you to start lifting juicy brain dumbells and participating in lots of “the scientific method”-type experiments...

Gettin’ my “cutting game” swol, bro.

Hahaa I love this. I'm sure you're right, my grandad used to say "there's many ways to skin a cat"...something like that anyway! Bit of a grim thought but I guess the idea makes sense...

 

[Clorgan]

I am not going to add anything as the advice given to you is really helpful (1. keep humidity up, 2. keep out of strong sun, 3. use older material that is thicker and has lignified). However, I do want to say that I am also a teacher in England, so if you ever start a bonsai project for the next generation, then count me in!

Yeah everyone has been so helpful, and thanks very much for adding more! Possible daft question...inside or outside?!

Oh a bonsai project would be amazing - I would absolutely be up for this! I'll get my thinking cap on

 

[Clorgan]

Went on a dog walk this aft and grabbed these, ivy and oak? (may well be wrong there!) no idea if they'll work but I thought why not give it a go will put a bag over them!

 

[Orion_metalhead]

The ivy should root. I rooted a 2" thick cut of main stem no problem last year.

Oaks are not known to easily root by cutting. I would remove some of the lower leaves, get the cutting further into the soil, and cover with a humidity dome as recommended earlier in the thread for your elms.

Good luck!!

 

[Clorgan]

The ivy should root. I rooted a 2" thick cut of main stem no problem last year.

Oaks are not known to easily root by cutting. I would remove some of the lower leaves, get the cutting further into the soil, and cover with a humidity dome as recommended earlier in the thread for your elms.

Good luck!!

Great stuff - thanks so much!!!

 

[Daniel_UK]

Yeah everyone has been so helpful, and thanks very much for adding more! Possible daft question...inside or outside?!

Oh a bonsai project would be amazing - I would absolutely be up for this! I'll get my thinking cap on

Outside - especially with our mild nights at the moment but obviously keep out of the full sun. 15 - 20°C will help the cuttings strike, which it is forecast to be for at least the next two weeks. Once the Chinese Elm is established then it can live inside but it is a lot happier outside.

 

[Clorgan]

Thanks for this! Would absolutely want them outside, just wasn't sure whether to do this from the start, thanks for clearing it up

 

[Shibui]

That oak cutting looks suspiciously like a hawthorn. Hawthorn also extremely difficult to root as cuttings so don't be disillusioned if it does not survive.
I allow for some losses by putting several cuttings in each pot (up to 20) The numbers make up for any low strike rates and if a few make roots I can always give a couple away, sell or swap for another species.

 

[Clorgan]

That oak cutting looks suspiciously like a hawthorn. Hawthorn also extremely difficult to root as cuttings so don't be disillusioned if it does not survive.
I allow for some losses by putting several cuttings in each pot (up to 20) The numbers make up for any low strike rates and if a few make roots I can always give a couple away, sell or swap for another species.

It may well be a hawthorn, I will openly say my knowledge is extremely limited. I did think I should collect more, but my dog was keen to get back and escape the sun! Will definitely keep this in mind for future - thanks so much! Even if nothing comes from them...no harm gained and I'm enjoying slowly building my knowledge!

 

[Shibui]

Will perhaps move them from the window sill then, as it does get a lot of light!

A lot of light is different from direct sun. Cuttings need good light. The problem with direct sun is it also has heat which can be trapped in a minigreenhouse and cook the cuttings. Bright light without direct sun is good.

Chinese elms are also easy to propagate from root cuttings. When I repot and root prune elms I save the thicker roots and put those in as root cuttings for even more new trees. Root cuttings have the advantage they are usually not straight like stem cuttings. and they do not require a greenhouse humidity tent.

The youngest and oldest kids went back to school here this week. Others are still on remote learning for another week or 2.
I manged to last nearly 20 years as a primary teacher, mostly smaller, rural schools. Enjoyed most of that time but could not keep going and stay sane so I got out many years ago. maybe still not completely sane but I do not miss being in schools.

 

[Clorgan]

A lot of light is different from direct sun. Cuttings need good light. The problem with direct sun is it also has heat which can be trapped in a minigreenhouse and cook the cuttings. Bright light without direct sun is good.

Chinese elms are also easy to propagate from root cuttings. When I repot and root prune elms I save the thicker roots and put those in as root cuttings for even more new trees. Root cuttings have the advantage they are usually not straight like stem cuttings. and they do not require a greenhouse humidity tent.

The youngest and oldest kids went back to school here this week. Others are still on remote learning for another week or 2.
I manged to last nearly 20 years as a primary teacher, mostly smaller, rural schools. Enjoyed most of that time but could not keep going and stay sane so I got out many years ago. maybe still not completely sane but I do not miss being in schools.

Thanks very much for this! Been meaning to look into root cutting - will have a little research!

Oh well done for lasting that long! I've got a lot of respect for that! I know they can be very hard work and it's absolutely hard to stay sane... I'm saying that in only my fourth teaching there! At the moment I'm finding it's so worth it though, and being at a good and supportive school makes all the difference!

 

[Clorgan]

Time to water? I know you're supposed to water when it's dried out a touch, finding that very vague though! Also, appears to be a very sandy patch? Soil not mixed well?

 

[Shibui]

It is time to water when the soil is getting dry UNDER the surface. Surface can appear dry when inside is still quite wet so not really a good guide. I was just reading a discussion about using a wood skewer left poking into the soil as a moisture gauge. That shows what is under that you cannot see or feel. I often scrape a little with a finger to check below the surface. fingernail depth is usually a good guide to below surface moisture content.
Does that sandy patch go deeper? Might just be some has been dropped on the surface by accident?
The soil they have used for this tree is typical of mass produced bonsai but is way different from the soils most of us use now. It is probably a bit late in the rowing season for you to repot but I would encourage you to do some research into bonsai potting mix an change the soil at an appropriate time. Modern mix is far easier to manage and less likely to cause root problems.

 

[Clorgan]

It is time to water when the soil is getting dry UNDER the surface. Surface can appear dry when inside is still quite wet so not really a good guide. I was just reading a discussion about using a wood skewer left poking into the soil as a moisture gauge. That shows what is under that you cannot see or feel. I often scrape a little with a finger to check below the surface. fingernail depth is usually a good guide to below surface moisture content.
Does that sandy patch go deeper? Might just be some has been dropped on the surface by accident?
The soil they have used for this tree is typical of mass produced bonsai but is way different from the soils most of us use now. It is probably a bit late in the rowing season for you to repot but I would encourage you to do some research into bonsai potting mix an change the soil at an appropriate time. Modern mix is far easier to manage and less likely to cause root problems.

Will definitely try the skewer tip, and I'll have a good poke under there next time I check for watering - thank you!

Yeah I did think it was naff looking soil, best to wait till next spring to repot do you think? I guess we're close to hitting summer here in the UK. Would it be too much of a risk to repot now? Well, as soon as I could research and get hold of decent mix. Hard to know whether the risk would outweigh being in good soil, instead of not good soil for a whole year

 

[leatherback]

when they start to push new buds of foliage

Is this for elms a reliable indicator? (Which would mean I have a 100% strike rate on my cork bark elms, which I would not mind

 

[Clorgan]

So I'm thinking about branches with the chinese elm and which side to be the front. First picture shows and option for the front. Will have a go at wiring the branches at some point to shape them a bit better. Second picture is another option, but that branch blocking the front would need to go.

Anyone got any thoughts on which would work better? And does that branch need to go regardless of which side is the front? If I do take off that brach would it work as a cutting?

Oh and don't worry it'll only be inside for a short while while I ponder the options - weather is awful today and I don't want to get wet/blown away

 

[Shibui]

hard to work out which branch is THE branch. The one that goes straight up probably has no future in this bonsai in any guise.
The on under your finger does have good possibilities.
So much depends on your vision for the ultimate shape of the bonsai.
The branch with the finger looks great for a future apex if you want to improve taper and reduce height.
The lower branches would look a bit better if they both cane a little toward the front whichever front is chosen.
The trunk and branches don't really indicate that one front is better than the other. maybe looking at the roots will make that decision easier. Nebari is usually the starting point for all bonsai style decisions so check what the surface roots look like. first.

I don't really like weeping branch S shape style for elm bonsai but that is what sells commercially so they grow lots and sell lots. It is also what you bought and have to work with so lets go with what you have.
Best paint by numbers bonsai is lower branches to left and right and slightly forward (welcoming the viewer??) so maybe wire one or both to whichever front you decide.
back branch is important to provide perspective - depth so another branch needs to be wired toward the rear. usually a little shorter than the side branches. Maybe that finger branch could do that?
Taper is also important but the trunk has been chopped just above the finger and has a new shoot that is thinner than the lower trunk so provides taper up there.
Try to avoid bar branches that may thicken the trunk unduly to make reverse taper but will also always provide a visual barrier to eye movement up the trunk but this one is quite good in that department.

Not sure what else to offer.

 

[Clorgan]

Thanks so much - everything you've said sounds good... Will look more into this later as I've finally got a good project to work on (I think!!!) will post in the other thread shortly

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Thanks so much - everything you've said sounds good... Will look more into this later as I've finally got a good project to work on (I think!!!) will post in the other thread shortly

Hey @Clorgan. I was reading this thread about cuttings and impromptu greenhouse and just read you taught younger students. As a science teacher I often used a paperback book of projects when showing teachers fun projects for younger students that take off on this one.
It’s title is:
Bottle Biology: An Idea Book for Exploring the World Through Plastic Bottles and Other Recyclable Materials
Book by Mrill Ingram. NSTA Press
It’s found often in the schools and public libraries, UK, CA, USA.
Cheers
DSD sends

 

[Clorgan]

Hey @Clorgan. I was reading this thread about cuttings and impromptu greenhouse and just read you taught younger students. As a science teacher I often used a paperback book of projects when showing teachers fun projects for younger students that take off on this one.
It’s title is:
Bottle Biology: An Idea Book for Exploring the World Through Plastic Bottles and Other Recyclable Materials
Book by Mrill Ingram. NSTA Press
It’s found often in the schools and public libraries, UK, CA, USA.
Cheers
DSD sends

Just had a quick look - looks like it has some amazing activities in there which the kids would love! Will have to purchase that one, unless we happen to have it at school already Thanks so much for the suggestion! What year do you teach? I really enjoy teaching science - it's not my strongest subject but the kids absolutely love it