Help on first style for an Oak

[Pájaro]

Hi Bnut

I have this English Oak recovered on January.
I am planning to do first wiring on September
since I am a newbie I have all the doubts coming to what style should match this tree and what I should try to pursue on first styling




My first thought is to to think in a kind of literaty style where I would keep the long neck on the trunk visible and the foliar mass would grop mainly at the top.As you can see on the picture the latest (top) part of the trunk it is pretty straight compared with the base. That makes me think that in the future the tree may be built out of the bottom branches and that top will go.

There are many oportunities for the primary structure, that makes it more difficult for me


Tryed to draw some sketches that would help me to have an image:


On the first drawing the foliar mass seems to resemble more of a conifer, imho,
on the other two I tryed to draw more the up-and-out shape of a decidious billow.

Do you think that this would make sense through the years? Should I try to do the first wiring trying to pursue something like this?
Do you think that chopping the upper part of the trunk will be the best option when the time is right? In that case, would you start to prepare the bottom branches to form the future tree already at this time?

Any other suggestion will be very wellcome
Thanks in advance

 

[BrianBay9]

By "recovered on January" do you mean it was collected (dug up) Jan 2024? Also, can you please add your general location to your profile? Advice will depend on where you are in the world.

 

[Pájaro]

Hi Brian,

Yes I meant collected,
since then just let it grow, right now about to give a second push.
Not planning to cut anything until next spring,
as I mentioned, thinking on wiring on September and how

I am in the north of Spain, inland mediterranian ambient, zone 9 USDA

 

[TrevorLarsen]

Hi Brian,


Yes I meant collected,
since then just let it grow, right now about to give a second push.
Not planning to cut anything until next spring,
as I mentioned, thinking on wiring on September and how

I am in the north of Spain, inland mediterranian ambient, zone 9 USDA

You should add your location to your profile so when people click on your name it shows your general location. If you notice everyone else on the site has that just so we know what climate people are doing what and when. I agree you should just let it grow until next year.

 

[Pájaro]

@TrevorLarsen done!
thanks for the advice

 

[BrianBay9]

......My first thought is to to think in a kind of literaty style where I would keep the long neck on the trunk visible and the foliar mass would group mainly at the top. As you can see on the picture the latest (top) part of the trunk it is pretty straight compared with the base. That makes me think that in the future the tree may be built out of the bottom branches and that top will go......

Yes, wait until spring for significant work, and then only if you continue to get good growth this year.

You seem to be pretty thoughtful about your approach. Yes, you have very little taper on the trunk, but good movement. If you wanted to do something more natural for oaks then the lack of taper would be a problem. If you're going for a literati style, then not so much. For the literati the challenge is the straight part of the trunk (top third). You could cut back to one of the lower branches to serve as your new top trunk and wire it to continue the movement you have in the lower trunk.

 

[Pájaro]

Thanks Brian,
the possibility of choping that trunk really scares me
but I see the point on your suggestion

There is a group of three branches already there before a gap up to the rest on the top

the one at the front is tyniest of them, then two at the side and one on the back, that it is actually the highest on that part
I guess there is the possibility with oaks that after cutting back more will show,

If the tree continues showing health all the way when would you recommend to do this operation?

More context on the tree:
It was prepared for collection on May '24, with a air layer at the base underground.
Collected in January with a root ball 8 inches diameter aprox.
Fertilizing since May '25
Few buds push twice, rest at the tips are currently inflating

Thanks for your help

 

[Pájaro]

little update here




Cold temperatures took long time to arrive
The oak remained with lot of leaves untill the end of december and still some greenish left
I decided to do the chopping at this point and see the response that should come at the beginning of March

 

[Juanmi]

Nice tree Pájaro.
I don't meant to be an "aguafiestas", just checking to be sure. Do you know that styling an oak won't be as easy as some other species? Looking at your sketches make me think of a juniper, but I don't think that you could achieve defined pads like that with an oak.

This is an oak I saw on an exhibition last year, note that this particular one was quite large. Maybe consider one or two big pads of green. I also realized the pads on your sketches were about the same size, maybe it would look more natural if they were all different sizes.

I do have some oak seedlings, I haven't decided yet how will I style them, but I still have a lot of time to decide

 

[Pájaro]

Thanks Juanmi,
Not sure if i will be able to style the tree as I could imagine. Yes, the sketches show more of a conifer style. I should do some more naturalistic live drawing to understand the structure better. The idea of informal billows is on my mind but not sure ( not experience either) how to achieve that

Thanks for the picture and the ideas on green mass
What do you think that are the issues that make an oak not as easy tree to style as other species?

 

[Juanmi]

I'm not very experienced myself, but if I'm not mistaken oaks won't do a fine ramification easily, as well as crabapples, for exemple. That doesn't mean that you can't enjoy them, but I think it will take more work.

I'm not sure if I'm clear, for exemple for japanese maples, when you prune a branch the tree will make buds grow to replace it, usually by pairs, so you will end with the branch you pruned bifurcating into a V shape and so on. On crabapples (and I think oaks grow similarly) when you prune a branch a single bud will develop making it just a continuation of the original branch. But I think you can try to force it to develop more buds by defoliating.

Again, don't take this too seriously, I'm not 100% sure.

If I was in your position I wouldn't worry too much about styling right now. You did already a good pruning, let the tree grow and let him give you some hints or suggestions, maybe you'll get some inspiration later on.

Also, I don't know if it is your only tree, but if it is I would consider getting a more easy species to start practicing while your oak grows. Chinese elms are great (but avoid the commercial bonsais if you can), I thing maples should grow quite good in Galicia, either japanese maples or even better, trident maples

 

[doc spring _work]

I like your design plan, I'm excited to see what becomes of it!

Some things I noticed, your drawing includes a large deadwood section (which I adore) note! Deadwood features on deciduous do occur but they will be very different then conifers! That section could become a wonderful hollow possibility supporting moss or mini ferns to establish age!

Secondly as previously mentioned, by Juanmi Pads on deciduous do tend to be a bit different, that said it's attainable

And lastly something to consider is oaks (at least all of the ones I worked with in the nursery) do grow quite slowly so development can take some time! Thrilled to see what you do!

 

[Pájaro]

I understand what you mean; partial defoliation will be on the schedule when the time is right.
It is also true that they are really vigorous, i guess that is more problematic when you get into refinement stage and branches tend to thick. Actually it s common to see up to 4 buds in a same location causing quick thickening.

I do have more trees like local elm ( ulmus minor) but they are all in a really beginning stage,
as for maples here where I am you can find sometimes montpellier maple which leaves are kind of similar to trident´s, I would love to collect some seeds if I have the chance.

 

[Pájaro]

Thanks doc,
as you can see on the update pictures, the dead tip and some large part is already gone with the chop,
I ll keep you posted with some more pictures

here another inspiration example:

 

[Juanmi]

I understand what you mean; partial defoliation will be on the schedule when the time is right.
It is also true that they are really vigorous, i guess that is more problematic when you get into refinement stage and branches tend to thick. Actually it s common to see up to 4 buds in a same location causing quick thickening.

I do have more trees like local elm ( ulmus minor) but they are all in a really beginning stage,
as for maples here where I am you can find sometimes montpellier maple which leaves are kind of similar to trident´s, I would love to collect some seeds if I have the chance.

Oh right, so you get a few buds, but maybe the shoots are pretty long when they grow? I knew it was not easy to have a good ramification, I might have mixed up what the problem was.

Nice if you have some other trees, that's ok, most of my trees are on a early stage too.

About the Acer Monspessulanum I think that is to the easiest either. It is true that the foliage is similar to the trident, but the growing patterns are very different. I have an Acer Campestre and I can tell already that it is going to be more challenging.

I don't want to push it, but if you have the chance you should try a trident maple or chinese elm.

 

[Juanmi]

I guess I can't delete a comment... I commented again by accident, sorry