Hedging Cutting Junipers ???

[Dav4]

I echo Poink's position. You come up with polarizing statements which you dont know the answer to, if there IS a right answer or not. Because the statement is polarizing, people tend to not reply as much. Then, because you cant just put an idea out there and let it be, you start whining that no one replies. Then you pour acid in the festering wound and start ramping up the rhetoric until you touch a nerve in people and off it goes. Not satisfied with being called out on outlandish claims that you have made the discovery of the century, you decide to start calling names.
That's your MO Stacey. It was when you called yourself Stacey Allen Muse and got tossed, it is now that you call yourself Sawgrass, it was over at Facebook Bonsai Auction when Mark tossed you because you cant control your temper or your mouth.
Dont forget that you went to the new talent competition in NY last year. That means you have been working on bonsai for 10 years or less. Hardly time to learn everything you claim to have been doing for years. Working at a bonsai nursery may give you a bit of an advantage in the learning curve, but the real veterans around Bnut see through your rants. Most of us can just click past it. Others reach the limit. That's when you become predictable.

You know what your "MO" is... following people trying to figure what their MO is !!!
Sad part is that you can't even get that right. You post this ridiculous crap like you somehow actually
really know me, are you for real ??? I mean clearly you are no Sherlock Holmes....
Shirley Holmes perhaps, but no real detective... because if you were you would understand what a load
of rubbish you just typed !!! Perhaps you need to go back to correcting people's spelling and dictation
because clearly Bonsai and Detective work aren't your thing.

Were you a Secretary before you became so knowledgeable in Bonsai ??? I bet you were... you sat around
reading Bonsai Books, every day waiting for the boss to come out of his office, so you could type something
up. This is why you tell everyone you been doing Bonsai for the last 40 yrs, for
this is how long you have been sitting at your dead end job reading books just hoping one day you will get
the chance to actually work on a tree... Am I getting close ??? See, I can
be a detective too, and just throw out any accusations however true or not...

Or perhaps you
are a Spelling Bee Teacher with a peg leg and a cleft pallet...

How can you refute Lordy's post when you respond to it with the venom here. NO ONE here at B'nut goes off the deep end and gets nearly as personal and mean as you do.

 

[A Random User]

How can you refute Lordy's post when you respond to it with the venom here. NO ONE here at B'nut goes off the deep end and gets nearly as personal and mean as you do.

Oh, come now Dave... You really took the secretary, and spelling bee teacher thing
seriously??? Lordy was trying to think he had somehow "pegged" me, and I was just
showing him how 2 can make up shit and play a detective game... Personally I found
what I posted rather humorous !!! Side Note... dealing with "refuting" Lordy's post...
what's funny here is that he still didn't answer any of the basic questions of this thread,
or even try and contribute in a positive manner... but has managed to somehow still
interject himself within the conversation through trying to trash me, he was the first here to go
and attack my character, and when I respond... I am somehow wrong??? Go figure...
Gotta love a B-NUT logic...
But you are right was a little venomous to call him Shirley Holmes !!!

 

[M. Frary]

So are we hedging junipers or what?!

 

[A Random User]

Total side note... since I am such an asshole and a trouble maker, I think I
will from now on start an argument in each of the post regarding my trees !!!
This way It will have the same amount of 832 views in less than 2 days.

 

[lordy]

Or perhaps you are a Spelling Bee Teacher with a peg leg and a cleft pallet...

You found me out buddy.

And for the record, it's cleft palate.

 

[bonsaibp]

I visited a large commercial grower of nana junipers. They used electric trimmers to hedge the trees into shape. Sort of like the ones in the pic below

You sure they weren't trimming weed?

 

[M. Frary]

Total side note... since I am such an asshole and a trouble maker, I think I
will from now on start an argument in each of the post regarding my trees !!!
This way It will have the same amount of 832 views in less than 2 days.

You shouldn't take such names to yourself. Bad for self esteem.

 

[Dav4]

Oh, come now Dave... You really took the secretary, and spelling bee teacher thing
seriously??? Lordy was trying to think he had somehow "pegged" me, and I was just
showing him how 2 can make up shit and play a detective game...Personally I found
what I posted rather humorous !!! Side Note... dealing with "refuting" Lordy's post...
what's funny here is that he still didn't answer any of the basic questions of this thread,
or even try and contribute in a positive manner... but has managed to somehow still
interject himself within the conversation through trying to trash me, he was the first here to go
and attack my character, and when I respond... I am somehow wrong??? Go figure...
Gotta love a B-NUT logic...
But you are right was a little venomous to call him Shirley Holmes !!!

You see humor, but I see mean spirited, juvenile trash talking. I don't get it...


By the way, I've never hedged junipers, even before I knew really how to develop them. From the beginning, I focused on wiring to create the physical branch structure, then unrestrained growth. The relatively recent recommendation to never pinch but prune back to lignified tissue seems to work with my trees regardless of where they are in development.

 

[lordy]

Total side note... since I am such an asshole and a trouble maker, I think I
will from now on start an argument in each of the post regarding my trees !!!
This way It will have the same amount of 832 views in less than 2 days.

You just validated my point. I've never seen where anyone else is concerned with how many "views" a thread gets. Just more "Look at me!" by Stacey.
Done with this one.

 

[A Random User]

You found me out buddy.

And for the record, it's cleft palate.

I find this awful funny... seeing that this is my thread you
Bothered to respond too ???
Thanks for the spelling lesson Shirley Holmes.

 

[A Random User]

You see humor, but I see mean spirited, juvenile trash talking. I don't get it...


By the way, I've never hedged junipers, even before I knew really how to develop them. From the beginning, I focused on wiring to create the physical branch structure, then unrestrained growth. The relatively recent recommendation to never pinch but prune back to lignified tissue seems to work with my trees regardless of where they are in development.

Cool...
Then why didn't you add the bonsai discussion in the first place ?
Do you realize that since I began posting at B-Nut you have only
Posted on my theads regarding trees maybe 4 or 5 times ???
But, somehow managed to take the time on just about every other
Post to tell me where I was in the wrong...

I posted a legitimate question and even commented that I didn't
Want to get wrapped up in this BS and rather than posting about
Bonsai I was personally attacked... to which I will respond as I see
Fit, especially since no one here is bothering to take the time
To discuss Bonsai.

 

[A Random User]

You just validated my point. I've never seen where anyone else is concerned with how many "views" a thread gets. Just more "Look at me!" by Stacey.
Done with this one.

Did I seek you out again to make another comment at
My thread ??? Man I really need to stop doing that !!!

 

[Dav4]

Cool...
Then why didn't you add the bonsai discussion in the first place ?
Do you realize that since I began posting at B-Nut you have only
Posted on my threads regarding trees maybe 4 or 5 times ???
But, somehow managed to take the time on just about every other
Post to tell me where I was in the wrong...
We both know this is a gross exaggeration... and I tried to add something meaningful to the thread, but it was too late by then
I posted a legitimate question and even commented that I didn't
Want to get wrapped up in this BS and rather than posting about
Bonsai I was personally attacked... to which I will respond as I see
Fit, especially since no one here is bothering to take the time
To discuss Bonsai.

Honestly, I generally don't feel comfortable now commenting in your threads given our personal history here, along with the way you continue to behave. I suspect there are others like me. People didn't have it in for you when you first started posting here years ago under your real name, but the holier then thou attitude and the meanness and personal vitriol you routinely direct at others have tainted your image here to many long term B'nutters. There are instances of it all over the place here in numerous posts. Of course, we can't see your earlier posts because they were deleted when you were originally banned but I'm sure there would be examples there as well. I think you know your stuff and can certainly be a bonus to the forum but dealing with your personality is overwhelming and painful at times...and that is why I don't participate in your threads. It's sad but it's the God's honest truth.

 

[Paradox]

Wondered if anyone out there has ever tried hedge cutting Junipers ?
By this I mean not pinching, or cutting back to the next branch in the foliage,
But just taking scissors and cutting straight across the top of the pad...

Now obviously one would not want to do this with a tree in its final stages
Of development... for it might revert to juvenile foliage, and the tops all turn
Brown, but what about in the early stages of pad development where one is
Wanting to increase foliage mass, and begin defining a tree.

I remember at the end of a Lindsay Fair video, where he did just this, grabbed
His scissors and whacked straight across... saying he had years before this
Tree would be ready for displaying, and for the moment he was only concerned
With it back budding and tightening up the foliage.

No I never have and I would never consider doing this on a tree I was trying to develop for bonsai for many of the reasons mentioned.

As for the rest of the discussion, seeing devolve into the state it became after page 3 is just plain pathetic.

 

[october]

Why don't we hedge junipers? This answer does not require opinion. Just horticultural fact. If you hedge a juniper, you are cutting everything in a section and as mentioned, you get brown tips. However, certain branches in the group hedged might be cut back too far. Cutting branches back too far on junipers can kill that branch. Also, it can kill some sub branches within the pad. This is also true for pine and hinoki cypress.

Of course you can utilize this technique, you just need to know the behavior of the tree you are doing it to. Another example is using a saw to cut a root ball. If a root ball is large and like cement, maybe the saw is employed. However, for me it is an absolute last resort. Of course you can use the saw. However, when you cut right across the root ball, if there is a major root with many roots coming off it, then this might create problems. Once again, it is up to the individual, but plant physiology is a constant.

There is a saying, "you are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your own facts". Everyone should do whatever they want. Decisions should be made based on the growth habits of the tree.

Rob

 

[A Random User]

Honestly, I generally don't feel comfortable now commenting in your threads given our personal history here, along with the way you continue to behave. I suspect there are others like me. People didn't have it in for you when you first started posting here years ago under your real name, but the holier then thou attitude and the meanness and personal vitriol you routinely direct at others have tainted your image here to many long term B'nutters. There are instances of it all over the place here in numerous posts. Of course, we can't see your earlier posts because they were deleted when you were originally banned but I'm sure there would be examples there as well. I think you know your stuff and can certainly be a bonus to the forum but dealing with your personality is overwhelming and painful at times...and that is why I don't participate in your threads. It's sad but it's the God's honest truth.

I thank you for posting this, I think it is honest and sincere, and appreciate that
You had the balls to do it...

With this said, it is shame that I was that I was blocked / banned, what ever you
Want to call it... Because not only were my post deleted that might support your argument,
But also the post of how I was treated by the long term B-Nutters you speak of.
And to be frank, since this is what we seem to be doing... alot of folks here, I will not
Mention names, were just plain assholes to me and anyone else who dared question
Why things in bonsai were done a certain way, and as in this post if one put up a logical
idea of doing something a different way, rather than actually trying to debate the
Issue, as has been done here with this thread, I was merely scoffed at and I was made to go
on the defense for really doing nothing more than what anyone should do who is wanting
To progress, and that is question what is being done, and if there is a better way of doing
It. Most often there is not, I understand this, but by looking, one if nothing else has only reassured
The position of why it works.

I also wish we had the comments from the Bar, so we could examine them as well...
So, then I wouldn't have to try and defend myself from those who not only a clueless
As to why I was banned, but who have decided to take this information and spread it all over
The internet for the world to see, effecting not only my status within the Bonsai community, but
Also my livelihood of how I make money. If we had this, then everyone would be able to see that
For the record... the whole incident should never of happened in the first place !!! Just
As the heated arguments should not be happening. If this forum was managed properly,
And the moderators actually did their job... then nobody would of had to come to a "Bonsai" forum,
And read racist post about Muzzie and Nigger Lovers !!! Which for the record is actually why I was
Kicked off... I held the authorities feet to the fire for not handling this properly. Which I nor anyone
Else should of had to do in the first place !!! So, when you guys out there are running off to inform
Others on Facebook sites, perhaps you might include this information, seeing that you now know the
Actual reason behind the story... Would I do what I did and get kicked off again ??? In a New York
Minute, and I am not even a New Yorker... Why? Because I believed in this site, and I felt it was worth
Taking the risk.

So... were the one's that were saying these things kicked off, or were the one's who initiated insults at me
For merely asking questions or making alternate suggestions told not to, seeing that the rules before being
Changed with the server switch over, use to say no personal attacks would be tolerate... Nope, I was just told
That this was the "Old-Timmer" Bonsai way...
So, from my personal perspective, I learned and was taught by not only the Old Timers, but the
Authority here to not only be bitter, but in order to be heard, you had to fight and argue.
Does it make it right ??? Perhaps not... but, what it did make me realize, was that most were full of
Crap, and didn't know their butt from a hole in the ground when it came to Bonsai. This I learned
Was why they argued.

Since we are airing our dirty laundry, I seem to recall in my early days here commenting on one of your
Trees, the one I believed you showed Walter Pall ??? That was at first a very cool rugged piece of stock,
That looked as though it could have been growing on a cliff and had been exposed to countless years of
Battle between the elements, I thought you had lost some of the feel by taking it in a direction that was fluffy,
With lots of foliage, I made the suggestion that I felt you were going in the wrong direction, which is fine
Differences of options... but, rather than discussing it you kinda just shrugged me off as though I didn't know
What I was talking about. This would be the reason, why we latter had our little tiff when this exact same thing
Happened, but somehow didn't happen to Dario...

So, you and the others can think of me as you will. I am an asshole, I don't know what I am talking about... etc.
I have already had my name trashed by people who never actually even met me, don't know a thing about me,
Didn't even bother to take the time to learn, all because I decided to join an online forum to try and discus Bonsai,
but instead had to endure everything else but bonsai...
And I will keep doing as I do, until perhaps someone gives me a reason not too.
This thread was started with good intentions, and as usual can't be discussed in a
Civilized way, other than through insults... but, am I really surprised ??? Not really, these guys
Were just doing what has always been done here at the Nut House.

Clearly somewhere along the way in all this... I feel out with the "cool kid" crowd...
And that's fine. I don't need to be a part of the group to do Bonsai.
I will keep doing what I do, trying out new and dumb things... I will keep posting my
Trees for no one to comment on, and will disagree with things as I see fit.
When someone comes and takes the time to seriously ask a question, or wants to
Debate an issue, I will however give them the respect that they are only trying
To learn.

 

[A Random User]

No I never have and I would never consider doing this on a tree I was trying to develop for bonsai for many of the reasons mentioned.

As for the rest of the discussion, seeing devolve into the state it became after page 3 is just plain pathetic.

See... you should of taken that offer to be a moderator when given the chance !
You, I believe would have been good at it... and I don't mean this as an insult.

 

[A Random User]

Why don't we hedge junipers? This answer does not require opinion. Just horticultural fact. If you hedge a juniper, you are cutting everything in section and yes, as mentioned, you get brown tips. However, if you cut back to much, certain branches in the group hedged might be cut back too far. Cutting back to far on branches on junipers, can kill that branch. Just like pine and hinoki cypress.

Of course you can utilize this technique, you just need to know the behavior of the tree you are doing it to. Another example is using a saw to cut a root ball. If a root ball is large and like cement, maybe the saw is employed. However, for me it is an absolute last resort. Of course you can use the saw. However, when you cut right across the root ball, if there is a major root with many roots coming off it, then this might create problems. Once again, it is up to the individual, but plant physiology is a constant.

There is a saying, "you are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to your facts". Everyone should do whatever they want. Decisions should be made based on the growth habits of the tree.

Rob

You my friend are a beam of light in an otherwise dark thread.
Thank you for taking the time to discuss the subject at hand, whether
Or not we agree that hedging is good or bad, or even has a place in bonsai.

 

[Dav4]

Stacey, I remember that post and that suggestion you made. You're correct in assuming that I didn't think the tree would be best served by going in the route you though it should, but I certainly didn't blow you off, either...


Quote Originally Posted by stacy allen muse View Post

Dave, your tree has come a long way... this is the first time for me seeing this post and I like it.
However, what seems to me to be lacking with it now, and has somehow gotten lost... is it's ruggedness.
For me seeing the tree in your very first photos, they feel like they just came off the side of a mountain. Now not so much.
Obviously some of this has to do with the bleached wood, which could easily be resolves with some waterdown black paint, or ink. Not a prob.
I agree with walter's critique on some aspects.
I think the pot is a little overpowering, but health takes first priority.
I think the foilage needs to be reduced, but not necessarily in the way that was suggested. Another way might be by actually going through and thinning it out. Old rugged trees usually have rather sparce foilage, like in your original photos. For me as well I kinda liked the branches a little more straight. When you styled them you put some curves in, which kinda softened it's hard apperance.
So, my suggestion would be... to go back and review your original pics and see what attracted you to it in the first place. Don't forget as your thread says it is a Yamadori Rocky Mountain Juniper. And then style it as you see fit and what matches your discription.
Nice work, keep it up !!!
My response:
The tree is definitely going to get a trim. I just need to decide if I want to continue developing the tree in the classical Japanese form where heavy, dense canopies are acceptable on these old weathered trunks,or more like those styled by Walter Pall, where the canopy is more or less an accessory to the gnarly deadwood and massive trunk. The tree can be successfully styled either way...I just have to commit


Now, as far as what's going on now, it's your attitude that gets in the way of people appreciating you as an artist here, and it only gets worse with each passing post in threads like this. When you go off as often as you do here, people are generally going to do one of two things: 1) walk on eggshells when you're involved, or 2) get in your face and ramp it up. On a forum where the exchange of ideas and info is pretty much the reason for the forum's existence, either option sucks.

 

[A Random User]

Stacey, I remember that post and that suggestion you made. You're correct in assuming that I didn't think the tree would be best served by going in the route you though it should, but I certainly didn't blow you off, either...


Quote Originally Posted by stacy allen muse View Post

Dave, your tree has come a long way... this is the first time for me seeing this post and I like it.
However, what seems to me to be lacking with it now, and has somehow gotten lost... is it's ruggedness.
For me seeing the tree in your very first photos, they feel like they just came off the side of a mountain. Now not so much.
Obviously some of this has to do with the bleached wood, which could easily be resolves with some waterdown black paint, or ink. Not a prob.
I agree with walter's critique on some aspects.
I think the pot is a little overpowering, but health takes first priority.
I think the foilage needs to be reduced, but not necessarily in the way that was suggested. Another way might be by actually going through and thinning it out. Old rugged trees usually have rather sparce foilage, like in your original photos. For me as well I kinda liked the branches a little more straight. When you styled them you put some curves in, which kinda softened it's hard apperance.
So, my suggestion would be... to go back and review your original pics and see what attracted you to it in the first place. Don't forget as your thread says it is a Yamadori Rocky Mountain Juniper. And then style it as you see fit and what matches your discription.
Nice work, keep it up !!!
My response:
The tree is definitely going to get a trim. I just need to decide if I want to continue developing the tree in the classical Japanese form where heavy, dense canopies are acceptable on these old weathered trunks,or more like those styled by Walter Pall, where the canopy is more or less an accessory to the gnarly deadwood and massive trunk. The tree can be successfully styled either way...I just have to commit


Now, as far as what's going on now, it's your attitude that gets in the way of people appreciating you as an artist here, and it only gets worse with each passing post in threads like this. When you go off as often as you do here, people are generally going to do one of two things: 1) walk on eggshells when you're involved, or 2) get in your face and ramp it up. On a forum where the exchange of ideas and info is pretty much the reason for the forum's existence, either option sucks.

Can you please post up the second post following and the response, as well as what followed in the
Next posting I believe between you and someone else, I want to say Brian...

As far as my attitude... I unfortunately am so use to arguing with everyone about
Anything I post, that yes I take offense to it. Because every time I do post, this is what
Is to be expected. Sorry, just the way that it is. Just for you because I like you so much...
I will try and work on it.