Gumpo White

[stu929]

Good evening. Your resident noob is back with more questions.

I was walking my local nursery and noticed he had several Gumpo White Azeleas and for what I think is a very reasonable price. Obviously this are nursery stock so they will take a while but my wife and I love Azeleas so I would love to grab these. I haven't seen a ton about them, I read white with occasional spec of red or pink. Is this common ? Rare ? Luck of the draw?

To be honest I will likely get them either way I'm just trying to decide how many I want to pick up. I like the splash of color and randomness. Also I was curious how long these typically take to develop? I know Azelea in general seems to be slower but would these be a 5 year project or a 30 year project ? I like projects but I also like seeing the fruit of my labor.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Pitoon]

If you like it buy it, not sure why you need our approval here on the forum.

As far as development, everything is dependent on what you want it to look like when its done.

@Harunobu and @Leo in N E Illinois are the neighborhood experts on azaleas.

 

[stu929]

If you like it buy it, not sure why you need our approval here on the forum.

As far as development, everything is dependent on what you want it to look like when its done.

@Harunobu and @Leo in N E Illinois are the neighborhood experts on azaleas.

Not looking for approval. Other than photos online I've never seen on in person flowering. I'm new to the Azelea game other than what is in the ground around my house. I've been trying to look up info for the last 30 min and gumpo doesn't seem to have a ton of info so I thought I would ask.

 

[Pitoon]

They are basically dwarfs, slow growers. The white flowers are on the larger side and depending on what style of bonsai you're trying to achieve it will look out of proportion.

Look for medium to smaller sized flowers. This link will help with pictures.....

Azalea database

 

[Forsoothe!]

Yeah, the flowers are too big and they make marginal bonsai, like here...

 

[Harunobu]

See this Nuccio' s video about Gumpo's:

I have no experience with Gumpo myself. Actually, for some reason it isn't really a common bonsai cultivar. I do not know why. It is old enough, famous enough, and common enough. But I have not seen many pictures of very old and large Gumpo satsuki.

Gumpo is very stable on the scale of a single plant. So the flowers will all be the same. But if you have white Gumpo and are producing them in a nursery, through the years you will get a sport. Nuccio explains it well.
Not sure myself if Nuccio got all these sports also from Japan, meaning that they are very rare. Or that even if you run a nursery yourself, you will eventually get all variations of Gumpo. Likely, Gumpo pink is very common. But something like Gunbi might be much rarer. I do like the look of Gunbi though.

It is hard to give advice. We don't know what your initial plant looks like, and what image or vision you have in mind for it. So between buying a random Gumpo and not buying one, I'd say go ahead and buy it.
Between buying a Gumpo and buying something else, with the goal to create a small shohin bonsai within 5 years, maybe the other variety is preferable.

If you want a multicolour flower, don't get White Gumpo.
If you see a Gumpo nursery plant, and somehow you see a bonsai design in it, don't hesitate too much.
I don't think I would tell anyone to go find the Gumpo variety specifically for bonsai.

 

[Potawatomi13]

Flowers snow white very beautiful. Azaleas in general flowers out of "proportion" for Bonsai but seems this nearly universally accepted in this community. Wisteria and others in same boat but still used in Japan and other places as Bonsai. One suggestion is to see if can find trunk not straight as phone pole for actually interesting tree other than flowers. Very beautiful flowers.

 

[stu929]

Well poop nursery's around me tend to only have common azaleas. I was excited to see these. Was hoping to go back and pick up some of their clearance mugo as well since I don't have a mugo either. Maybe I'll pass.

Thanks

 

[Hack Yeah!]

I've got a white one that I picked up because it was $10. They have small leaves which is nice. The nebari develops fairly quickly. I'd say grab one and see how it goes. I've been letting my pink one grow out, so it's ready for a hard cut back next year. @johng has some youtube videos on these I recall

 

[stu929]

I've got a white one that I picked up because it was $10. They have small leaves which is nice. The nebari develops fairly quickly. I'd say grab one and see how it goes. I've been letting my pink one grow out, so it's ready for a hard cut back next year. @johng has some youtube videos on these I recall

View attachment 340425

The main reason I was asking was it was something different and they were 12 bucks. I went just to see what they had at the end of the year when I see things I don't have i ask questions. They have a bunch of quince, mugo, crepe myrtle, viburnum and two of these gumpos. I'm looking up info for some of the other species before I go back. A BIG mugo for 5 bucks seems like a good choice.

 

[johng]

In my experience Gumpo..pink or white are not the greatest material but not terrible. The biggest problem to me is the fact that they trunk up so slowly...20 years or more for a one inch trunk in most cases. The second issue is the size of the flowers...they are what I consider large for azalea..maybe 3-4" across. That said, when I run across old ones with big single trunks at nurseries, I will snap them up.

 

[Pitoon]

In my experience Gumpo..pink or white are not the greatest material but not terrible. The biggest problem to me is the fact that they trunk up so slowly...20 years or more for a one inch trunk in most cases. The second issue is the size of the flowers...they are what I consider large for azalea..maybe 3-4" across. That said, when I run across old ones with big single trunks at nurseries, I will snap them up.

You have any pics of yours to share?

 

[Harunobu]

The main reason I was asking was it was something different and they were 12 bucks. I went just to see what they had at the end of the year when I see things I don't have i ask questions. They have a bunch of quince, mugo, crepe myrtle, viburnum and two of these gumpos. I'm looking up info for some of the other species before I go back. A BIG mugo for 5 bucks seems like a good choice.

You can always buy one and see if you can grow a trunk out of it while it acts like a landscape plant in your garden. Then maybe 10 years down the road, you can dig it up and put it in a bonsai pot. Of course, it depends on what timescale you are thinking and on whether you actually need a flowering scrub in your garden somewhere.

It is not a cultivar to pick up just because it is that variety. You say they are uncommon thus different. But I would just inspect all evergreen azaleas for nebari, (single) trunk, and lack of reverse taper. And then buy one if it is up to standards. Then prune hard late winter/early spring. Probably best to shop around and buy one just before you prune, so next year. It if turns out the best one is a gumpo, go for it. But a Gumpo isn't a Kogetsu or a Aozora that you just want to buy because it has small neatly shaped flowers with many different patterns, while being very suitable for bonsai.

 

[johng]

You have any pics of yours to share?

I have sold most over the years... Here is a pic that's hardly worth sharing...there are three very old Gumpo on this rock planting. I typically pull the blooms off because they are so out of scale...but I like the way the they look the rest of the year.

 

[Pitoon]

I have sold most over the years... Here is a pic that's hardly worth sharing...there are three very old Gumpo on this rock planting. I typically pull the blooms off because they are so out of scale...but I like the way the they look the rest of the year.View attachment 340454

That would look fantastic if you had an azalea planted that produced really small flowers.

 

[Deep Sea Diver]

Whoa, are you talking about White Gumpo satsuki azaleas? aka:Nuccios

GUMPO —White. Medium, single, ruffled petals. Slow, compact growth. M-L.

I vote to just buy it if it looks like good material good to you.

If you are shooting to learn about creating bonsai azaleas, White Gumpo’s are just fine. They are good dwarfs and can do just fine. The 1 1/2 -2” flowers shouldn’t be a big issue after all, the flowers aren’t there that long anyways. I like them myself.

There a plenty of really nice azalea bonsai with flowers that size.

Just try to develop a more open style that takes the flower size into account, or better still, thin 1/2 the flower buds off early in the year before blooming, which is pretty much good practice anyways and done frequently.

Usually folks take the strong and weak buds off, leaving the buds that are middle sized... which makes the bloom simultaneous... also shoot for an even distribution when you are pruning.

General timing on creating any off the shelf azalea satsuki to decent bonsai form from scratch is usually 5 years, 10 years to a really good looking bonsai, forever for perfection!

Cheers
DSD sends

 

[stu929]

Whoa, are you talking about White Gumpo satsuki azaleas? aka:Nuccios

GUMPO —White. Medium, single, ruffled petals. Slow, compact growth. M-L.

I vote to just buy it if it looks like good material good to you.

If you are shooting to learn about creating bonsai azaleas, White Gumpo’s are just fine. They are good dwarfs and can do just fine. The 1 1/2 -2” flowers shouldn’t be a big issue after all, the flowers aren’t there that long anyways. I like them myself.

There a plenty of really nice azalea bonsai with flowers that size.

Just try to develop a more open style that takes the flower size into account, or better still, thin 1/2 the flower buds off early in the year before blooming, which is pretty much good practice anyways and done frequently.

Usually folks take the strong and weak buds off, leaving the buds that are middle sized... which makes the bloom simultaneous... also shoot for an even distribution when you are pruning.

General timing on creating any off the shelf azalea satsuki to decent bonsai form from scratch is usually 5 years, 10 years to a really good looking bonsai, forever for perfection!

Cheers
DSD sends

Thank you for the kind words. I haven't played with a mugo yet either so I may go back and pick one or both of the gumpos up. Honestly I would take a handful of what he has 70% off end of the year as I haven't tried them yet (many different colors of flowering quince, viburnum, japanese barberry, winterberry, etc )

Just want to make sure I don't pick something up that's awful for bonsai.

Thank you again.

 

[63pmp]

My Gumpo's are flowering now. Here's what they look like. They put on a nice show but slow to develop. I pruned the white one before it could flower. The mix of white and pink is a garden bed.

 

[Harunobu]

Thank you for the kind words. I haven't played with a mugo yet either so I may go back and pick one or both of the gumpos up. Honestly I would take a handful of what he has 70% off end of the year as I haven't tried them yet (many different colors of flowering quince, viburnum, japanese barberry, winterberry, etc )

Just want to make sure I don't pick something up that's awful for bonsai.

Thank you again.

No, it is not awful at all. Like others have said, they have large blooms and grow a bit slow. So they make nice landscape azaleas. Any azalea can be a used as a bonsai subject. But usually the easiest to work with for beginners are those that grow fast and have smaller flowers. White flowers can be considered a bit boring. But Gumpo is the most famous white satsuki. And it is for a reason. This form has been in cultivation for a very long time, and is very popular.
They are Japanese/satuski, but that doesn't mean they are much better for bonsai than the 'ordinary' azaleas which you may be familiar with. So to me unless a variety is really appealing, I would buy the nursery plant with the best tree shape. Because that is what you will have to work with. And usually nursery plants are multitrunked with no taper or even reverse taper.
Among bonsai, Gumpo isn't the go-to azalea. Some varieties are so nice for bonsai, you would make the trip to a nursery a bit out of your area specific variety, buy it no matter the branch structure of the nursery plant, and root everything you cut from it to try to grow bonsai out of those as well.

I would check this thread:

mail order azaleas Sept 2020

I went nuts, blame it on being cooped up avoiding Covid19. So far so good for myself. I was shopping on line at Singing Tree, a mail order nursery that I've dealt with in the past. Prices are fairly good, not "cheap" but not overly expensive. I picked up 4 azaleas, #1 size, roughly about a 5...

www.bonsainut.com

Azalea Hill Gardens http://www.azaleahillgardens-arkansas.com/
They sell very small plants/liners and do mail order

Singing Tree https://www.singtree.com/plants/azaleas
A few satsuki and some kurume

And White's Nursery https://www.whites-nursery.com/
You have to visit there, they are in Maryland.

There is also Nuccio's buy they are all the way in Cali.

They are specialty azalea nurseries wide a wide range, including many satsuki.

 

[stu929]

No, it is not awful at all. Like others have said, they have large blooms and grow a bit slow. So they make nice landscape azaleas. Any azalea can be a used as a bonsai subject. But usually the easiest to work with for beginners are those that grow fast and have smaller flowers. White flowers can be considered a bit boring. But Gumpo is the most famous white satsuki. And it is for a reason. This form has been in cultivation for a very long time, and is very popular.
They are Japanese/satuski, but that doesn't mean they are much better for bonsai than the 'ordinary' azaleas which you may be familiar with. So to me unless a variety is really appealing, I would buy the nursery plant with the best tree shape. Because that is what you will have to work with. And usually nursery plants are multitrunked with no taper or even reverse taper.
Among bonsai, Gumpo isn't the go-to azalea. Some varieties are so nice for bonsai, you would make the trip to a nursery a bit out of your area specific variety, buy it no matter the branch structure of the nursery plant, and root everything you cut from it to try to grow bonsai out of those as well.

I would check this thread:

mail order azaleas Sept 2020

I went nuts, blame it on being cooped up avoiding Covid19. So far so good for myself. I was shopping on line at Singing Tree, a mail order nursery that I've dealt with in the past. Prices are fairly good, not "cheap" but not overly expensive. I picked up 4 azaleas, #1 size, roughly about a 5...

www.bonsainut.com

Azalea Hill Gardens http://www.azaleahillgardens-arkansas.com/
They sell very small plants/liners and do mail order

Singing Tree https://www.singtree.com/plants/azaleas
A few satsuki and some kurume

And White's Nursery https://www.whites-nursery.com/
You have to visit there, they are in Maryland.

There is also Nuccio's buy they are all the way in Cali.

They are specialty azalea nurseries wide a wide range, including many satsuki.

I'm less than 2 hours from there. I grew up 20 min from there but I've never heard of them.....