Growing plants in hardiness zones outside their usual range

[misfit11]

I'm in Sonoma County, probably not too far from you. I've heard mixed opinions about keeping JWP in this area. Kathy Shaner claimed that contrary to popular opinion, you can keep JWP in the Bay Area. Adam Toth, who lives in Hayward, thinks that you can as well. Some people I've talked with in REBS say no.

I don't have one and I'm not willing to try given the risk. If I did, it would be relatively young and cheap just to see if I could keep it alive.

 

[Lorax7]

I’ve got a shore pine that I’ve been growing for several years here in Michigan (we used to be 5b but were changed to 6a when USDA updated their maps). It stays outside year round. Folks have told me I can’t do that, it’ll die, etc. Thus far, the tree hasn’t listened to them.

 

[AcerAddict]

What's your experience growing bonsais outside their usual range?

I grow numerous tropicals here that are only hardy down to zone 9 or even 10, so they have to be brought inside and put either in front of a bright south-facing window, or under LED grow lights from about November though February. I also grow a few Japanese maples that don't necessarily like the high summer heat and humidity here, so they are kept either on the shady north side of our house, or underneath a 40% shade cloth from May through August. They are also watered liberally during these hottest months. Despite all that, I will still occasionally get premature leaf drop in the summer.

I've seen banana trees, tropical hibiscus, and others that shouldn't be outside during our winters here in NY/7a, and yet they've been surviving.

The banana trees are normally cut down to about 8" above the soil surface, then covered with the cut banana leaves, left to endure snow and freezing temps.
It starts growing again the following spring.

Bananas can definitely be quite hardy if you protect the roots well in the winter. Several of my neighbors here have TALL banana trees that wither in the winter, get cut back to about a foot high, then take off like a rocket again around late April. The only drawback to this die off cycle is that they have trouble producing fruit in such conditions. I've currently got five big pots of Grand Nain (aka Chiquita) bananas in them that I'm going to bring in this winter and put under LED grow lights in an effort to get them to produce fruit. Grand Nain (Musa acuminata) only grow to about 6 or 8 feet high, so they're manageable indoors. In fact, "Grand Nain" translates from French into "Large dwarf."

 

[MaciekA]

I’ve got a shore pine that I’ve been growing for several years here in Michigan (we used to be 5b but were changed to 6a when USDA updated their maps). It stays outside year round. Folks have told me I can’t do that, it’ll die, etc. Thus far, the tree hasn’t listened to them.

Anecdotal support for your case:

Some of the really valuable shore pines come from a mile elevation or higher where significant Michigan-like cold is not unheard of. Lodgepole/shore pine being the species I have the most time with, it would surprise me if a shore pine did badly in Michigan (except in cases of bad/non-expert horticulture). Pinus contorta is grown outside of the PNW coast too (eg: Europe), places that have colder winters. I formerly lived in a climate very similar and nearby to yours (other side of the border though) and feel that it's a great climate for pine (amazing EWPs etc). Consider that shore pine can take some significant summer humidity too. Lots of it grows in the northerly areas of the PNW where it is continously-humid enough to be mosquito central -- reminds me of shield country with the granite and bazillions of lakes. Shore pine's very recent ancestors lived in areas that had super short growing seasons, very poor soils, strong winters, it is very genetically close to lodgepole (common ancestor is during a recent ice age) which has those traits too.

Folks like yourself proving it out give me hope in case I ever need to move back to that side of the country.

 

[another_alexander]

Hey there all,

Tossing my own two cents in. Not as familiar with JWP, but as a fellow 9b, I have noted the few pines I've tried in my area, at least for me, struggle if not looked after diligently when young. Of course this is getting them as nursery stock and not necessarily an import or actual "bonsai" that are a bit more established or used to some work.

Aside from some of the already mentioned species, I took a little bit of a different approach when thinking about what non-local species I could grow or attempt. I have always like the large weeping willows of the south and knowing I wanted something that grew vigorously and didn't mind lots of water, I bought some Weeping Willow cuttings. Roughly 2 inches, and still pretty green, I tossed them in some water and let some nice healthy roots develop.

I then planted it into a basket and popped 'em outside. As some shoots got longer and thicker, I tossed some wire just to keep a bit of shape around my "trunk" area but removed shortly after. So far so good, the willow has grown well, has some decent shape for being so young, and I'm sure is going to continue to grow well so long as I actually maintain it .

I researched the Willows quite a bit before I landed on them and really like the pros I came to, but do know there are some cons. The main that usually am weary of is not planting it in ground or near a water source because the tree will see it out (Already having water line issues, it's no fun).

Best,
Alex

 

[moriel]

This is the best angle I can do right now, maybe I'll take some other pics later with better light. I don't see any graft line.

 

[moriel]

I'm in Sonoma County, probably not too far from you. I've heard mixed opinions about keeping JWP in this area. Kathy Shaner claimed that contrary to popular opinion, you can keep JWP in the Bay Area. Adam Toth, who lives in Hayward, thinks that you can as well. Some people I've talked with in REBS say no.

I don't have one and I'm not willing to try given the risk. If I did, it would be relatively young and cheap just to see if I could keep it alive.

Yeah, I think it all comes down to the microclimates and conditions of where you have your JWPs. I lived in Berkeley for a couple of years (20 miles from Hayward) and I can see why people there claim JWPs can do well in that area, especially in the hills. If you happen to get your hands on a young JWP please share your experience